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Group F: SWE-USA-CHI-THA

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    #51
    Did Sweden have the wrong shade of blue trim or was it just soaked?

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      #52
      Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
      I don't know if it's more cruel to be on the end of having 13 goals put past you, or to see your opponents stop playing and basically taking pity on you. I feel like neither is a great option, and since there's no mercy rule and the competition isn't completely evenly matched, something like this is always possible.

      I'm not a huge fan of players being told how they should celebrate scoring a goal, though. It's the World Cup. I feel like someone should be able to celebrate however they want after scoring a World Cup goal no matter when it comes. I don't see a lot of hand-wringing over male players celebrating in blowouts either. Don't recall Germany being told they weren't doing it the right way when they hammered Brazil. At a certain point, I'm in complete agreement with the "if you don't like it, then don't let it happen" school of thought.
      Just to clarify, I was talking about the US fans' celebrations being a bit OTT rather than the players'.

      But yeah, Thailand were terrible. And they probably shouldn't be here; as discussed on the qualification thread, the AFC royally screwed the DPRK out of a chance of a place this time and I would imagine they'd have given the US a much closer game.

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        #53
        I wasn't specifically trying to argue against anything you said. For the fans, perhaps they were celebrating seeing a team that is world class...the US men lost 0-3 at home to Venezuela a few days ago.

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          #54
          And they’re probably drunk.

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            #55
            Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
            It's obvious that the disparity between the teams are vast, but that's not something that the giants can control. Thailand's women's team is 34th in the world. That they're in the top 50 but so far off the level from a team like the US is something that's on FIFA, the federations, and the individual FAs.
            Of course, but Thailand is there, and the big teams have to play them, the issue is how do they do that in a fair and positive way? Run up a quasi-glorious cricket score, or after six or seven goals, maybe drop back into their own half and let Thailand's forwards have the ball and run at a superior defence. It's a fundamentally uncompetitive situation, so how do you make the best of it?

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              #56
              Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
              So are teams like the USA, Germany, and France to blame for uneven results when they play teams like Thailand? It seems insulting to think along the lines of "this is the World Cup, and everyone has earned their places here, but this team really isn't up to snuff, so take it easy on them."
              This. The US were right to try and play as well as they could and score as often as they could. It ain't Little League.


              Boring for a neutral to watch, though.

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                #57
                As I said on fb a good bet would be if Alex Morgan can beat Just Fontaine.

                If anything, 5 goals in the first game, I would still put that chance at 5%. It just shows how amazing that '58 World Cup was for him.

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                  #58
                  I might have to rethink my desire to expand this to 32 teams if the standard below 24th is really poor. OTOH Panama were atrociously bad in Russia without that de-legitimizing a 32 team men's event (but not 13-0 poor).
                  Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 12-06-2019, 01:16.

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                    #59
                    Originally posted by Janik View Post
                    It ain't Little League.
                    That's true. Little League is usually much more competitive.

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                      #60
                      The US got to play the minnow first. We wouldn't know what Sweden would have done should it have been reversed, but say the US had let up at 7 or 8 goals...I think it would be naive to expect that Sweden would have chosen to stop at the same number, rather than going for more to get the superior goal difference. The first tiebreaker is goal difference. It is ugly, but the US has put Sweden in the position of trying to go for 14 now. Winners of Group F play Group B's runners up, so likely Spain, while Group F's runners up play Group E's runners up...probably Canada or the Netherlands. That's an extremely tough first knockout game.

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                        #61
                        Incredibly disgraceful lack of sportsmanship, never seen anything like this, not just running up the score against a glorified housewife pub side, but woofing it up after every goal as if they've won the Superbowl... Congrats to the USWNT for closing the gender gap on being ugly Americans.
                        Last edited by linus; 12-06-2019, 04:24.

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                          #62
                          Originally posted by Kevin S View Post

                          as discussed on the qualification thread, the AFC royally screwed the DPRK out of a chance of a place this time and I would imagine they'd have given the US a much closer game.
                          I can't find the relevant discussion; how were the Koreans screwed?

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                            #63
                            Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
                            The US got to play the minnow first. We wouldn't know what Sweden would have done should it have been reversed, but say the US had let up at 7 or 8 goals...I think it would be naive to expect that Sweden would have chosen to stop at the same number, rather than going for more to get the superior goal difference. The first tiebreaker is goal difference. It is ugly, but the US has put Sweden in the position of trying to go for 14 now. Winners of Group F play Group B's runners up, so likely Spain, while Group F's runners up play Group E's runners up...probably Canada or the Netherlands. That's an extremely tough first knockout game.
                            Can't argue with that, if winning is the only thing that matters so be it, but it still carries the stigma of the big kid beating up the much smaller kid for some of us. If there's a very slim chance the US might have to face a slightly stronger opponent in the first knockout round, boo fucking hoo. They're the world champions, they should act like it and be able to take on whichever opponent presents itself.

                            However, more importantly, with success comes responsibility, or it should. Women's soccer is still establishing itself internationally. On another board someone who's lived in Thailand for twenty years said he's never seen women or girls playing the game there. Shouldn't the most successful women's program in the world be trying to improve that situation rather than gleefully annihilating the handful of participants who are trying to establish it?

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                              #64
                              Originally posted by Sporting View Post

                              I can't find the relevant discussion; how were the Koreans screwed?
                              Doraemon's posts on this page:
                              https://www.onetouchfootball.com/for...ion-2019/page4

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                                #65
                                Thanks

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                                  #66
                                  It was Thailand's cup final. As in, FA Cup final for men, 2019.

                                  I don't have a problem with the USA trying to score as many as possible in a group game. Ask any Scot who remembers 1974, and going home unbeaten. A knockout game is obviously different, a team would ease off and avoid cards, injuries etc - but then you're unlikely to have such a lopsided contest at that stage.

                                  Fans going over the top in celebration is another matter, but on the scale of things, no big deal. I don't think the Americans were chanting "sacked in the morning" or offering the Thai fans a rematch in the car park afterwards.

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                                    #67
                                    Harsh perhaps, but it's up to the US how many they score in an instance like this. Had they let up at seven or eight - with the potential for GD deciding the group winners - there'd be little reason for Sweden not to look for double figures on Sunday. (Which, let's face it, is equally possible.)

                                    I note that some of the Thai players were in tears before the end, which isn't nice to see, but I kind of think that if you're conceding four times in six minutes, then you probably shouldn't be there. That said, I hope they can take 'something' from their World Cup experience.

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                                      #68
                                      Originally posted by Jah Womble View Post
                                      if you're conceding four times in six minutes, then you probably shouldn't be there.
                                      Thailand 2019 = Brazil 2018

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                                        #69
                                        Share the sympathy, but well done to the Americans (I saw a 5 minute goal highlight clip). I note that as part of extended qualification (including the previous Asian Championships), the Thais scored 6 twice (against Palestine and Jordan) and drew with Australia.

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                                          #70
                                          Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
                                          Can't argue with that, if winning is the only thing that matters so be it, but it still carries the stigma of the big kid beating up the much smaller kid for some of us. If there's a very slim chance the US might have to face a slightly stronger opponent in the first knockout round, boo fucking hoo. They're the world champions, they should act like it and be able to take on whichever opponent presents itself.
                                          These are not kids! That is the fundamental here. The US didn't patronise and disrespect Thailand by easing up on them and allowing them to have a "run at a superior defence" or any such bs. This isn't a school sports day where everyone is a winner and we don't hurt the feelings of the participants who are not good enough by showing them up as such, it's elite international sport. If you are out of your depth, you are going to get thrashed. Discovering you are inferior at something comes with the territory of both sport and adulthood, and as adults the Thai players need to handle it. Which there is no indication they are not doing, though their coach certainly has significant work to do preparing her side for the next game after yesterday.

                                          As for taking on whichever opponent presents itself, that is exactly what the US did yesterday. Because they are strong, they may have earned themselves a slightly easier game later on. That is built into the structure of competitions such as this, and deliberately so as it rewards the best teams for being that.


                                          Is 13-0 a good look for the competitive balance of a tournament. No. Is it the USA's problem to make sure it doesn't happen? Absolutely not.

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                                            #71
                                            Originally posted by Jah Womble View Post
                                            Harsh perhaps, but it's up to the US how many they score in an instance like this.
                                            It's ruthless. It's elite international sport. It's meant to be ruthless. Indeed being ruthless is often demanded by governing bodies in the rules of such competitions ("players shall give their best efforts at all times" etc.)

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                                              #72
                                              As for why it happened, well, we do insist on it being a World Cup, don't we? Whilst I doubt any of Belgium, Switzerland, Denmark* (the sides knocked out in the European Qualifying play-offs), Iceland, Wales or Austria (finished second in their qualifying pool but didn't get into the play-offs) would have beaten the USA*, none of them would have gone for double figures or anything close to it. Someone up thread questioned whether there are 24 Women's sides good enough to compete at these finals. There are. But more than nine of them are European and fewer than five are Asian. That lack of depth in Asia was the point Jonathan Pearce was making during the opening game incidentally, when people were laughing at him for questioning the strength of Asian Women's Football. He wasn't saying the best sides were not good but that the likes of South Korea get very few games that test them as only Japan, China and Australia (and North Korea, who would also be in the 'wouldn't have gone for double figures' group) are serious opposition. So when they run into France, they are unprepared.

                                              * - Denmark, the runners-up in Euro 2017, might argue with that.

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                                                #73
                                                World Cup Final tournaments should have 16 teams.

                                                (Retreats)

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                                                  #74
                                                  Originally posted by Wouter D View Post
                                                  Thailand 2019 = Brazil 2018
                                                  Fair point - I'd forgotten that Brazil had conceded four in six minutes during that semi. (Assuming that you mean '2014', obviously.)

                                                  The difference there is that - despite the feelings of many OTFers, I'm sure - Brazil had kind of proved themselves worthy of 'being there' via their previous results and history.

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                                                    #75
                                                    Originally posted by Kevin S View Post
                                                    DPRK suffered the long-term consequences of a doping ban they received in 2011. Although their absence weakens these finals, I don't think they were cheated out of a place given the original offence, any more than Sharapova was cheated of a seeding after her drugs ban. In addition, success for DPRK would be a kind of sportswashing in the same way that all shitty governments benefit from any sporting success their national teams accrue. And whilst the current US regime is shitty, it cannot (yet) be compared with North Korea's camps and torture state. China are probably the closest parallel among the qualified teams, whilst the Saudis, Iran and the hosts might be parallels from Russia 2018 (and Qatar for 2022 obviously).
                                                    Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 12-06-2019, 12:03.

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