Media coverage

[Sporting]

Quite a few of the Spanish players will just have their first names on the backs of their shirts - Celia, Ivana, Leila, Patri. So presumably it is how they like to be referred to.

Or what they're told to put? I really don't know.

[Janik]

Media coverage in Spanish sports newspapers has been pretty good and free of comparisons with the men's game, The only aspect I find annoying is their habit of calling female players by their first names whereas in the case of males surnames are used,

Very common in English as well. See the study that quite a few outlets reported on this week, such as the Indy - https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a8428916.html
I'm not sure whether cause and effect are getting confused here, though.

[Sporting]

Very common in English as well. See the study that quite a few outlets reported on this week, such as the Indy - https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a8428916.html
I'm not sure whether cause and effect are getting confused here, though.

Interesting. Thanks.

[ursus arctos]

We've talked about this in the context of tennis before.

Now that I think about, it is interesting that the NBA's conscious shift to being about "stars, not teams" has been accompanied by an increasing embrace of first names as a primary identifier (see LeBron, Steph, Giannis, Kawhi, etc).

[Patrick Thistle]

Going back to what Furtho said, I sometimes feel self conscious enthusing about female players because it makes it sound like I've got a bit of a thing for them. I loved Laura Bassett at the last world cup because she was uncompromising and carried on playing with a black eye after one of the French players tried to smash her cheekbone with an elbow. Bassett just didn't give a fuck; just got up and went back to it. I really admire that in any player. But if I say I "love" her that feels a bit wrong. (But I'd say that about a male player and I don't think anyone would care.)

[Janik]

We've talked about this in the context of tennis before.

Now that I think about, it is interesting that the NBA's conscious shift to being about "stars, not teams" has been accompanied by an increasing embrace of first names as a primary identifier (see LeBron, Steph, Giannis, Kawhi, etc).

There are two distinct elements going on here, I think. There is individual brands being built, which is the stars like LeBron etc. In Tennis terms these are the superstars, Roger, Rafa, Serena. There is conscious marketing going on there for sure, but also it's a bit driven by the fans - we always want a snappy single name for things we reference a lot. I'll bet fans were referring to James as simply LeBron before the NBA decided it looked a good bandwagon, rather than the other way around.
However, the dynamic for more journeyman players is rather more gender based. In terms of British Tennis, the current second ranked players are Cameron Norrie and Katie Boulter. Of the two, I'm much more likely to feel that referring to Boulter as Katie flows naturally in conversation despite that being ambiguous in certain contexts (there are a whole battalion of Tennis playing Katie's out there) than calling Norrie 'Cameron', which just sounds clunky. There certainly is some form of gender bias in that.

[Diable Rouge]

TG4's coverage is perfectly competent, but faced with the usual problem they have when covering sports outside of the GAA - they can get sportspeople to act as co-commentators (and to be fair, they've opted for gender balance here), but finding someone with good Irish is another matter - at least the person here is making an effort, unlike some ex-rugby players.

[Janik]

While I agree with most of what Janik said I want to try and avoid making a virtue out of watching women's sport. If you didn't watch France v Korea last night you missed a good game. That should be reason enough to watch imo.

I don't see that as disagreeing with what I wrote. Though I'm not sure you are suggesting it does. What I'm after is the ongoing normalisation of Women playing Football until it's all just seen as Football. For people to consume this as they would consume a Men's World Cup.

[Janik]

TG4's coverage is perfectly competent, but faced with the usual problem they have when covering sports outside of the GAA - they can get sportspeople to act as co-commentators (and to be fair, they've opted for gender balance here), but finding someone with good Irish is another matter - at least the person here is making an effort, unlike some ex-rugby players.

BBC Alba has that problem in spades. The (few) games I've watched on there have never had an expert who speaks the language. [Commentator rabbits on about the action in Gaelic for a few minutes] "So, x, are they pushing up too far?"

[Janik]

I understand this isn't exactly Janik's point, but at the end of the domestic season just finished I attended a couple of local women's games in the lower reaches of the pyramid. During the matches I texted a few friends with comments on the play. One of them responded with a comment passed on from his girlfriend that I must be "a dirtbag" to do such a thing on my own; someone else sent me a link to one of the players' saucy Instagram account.

I suppose there is something to be said about gender equality in a man suffering this. I suspect most female Football fans could offer a similar story or two with such reactions to them watching Men's games. Possibly more prevalent 10-20 years ago now, though?

[Hot Pepsi]

I don't see that as disagreeing with what I wrote. Though I'm not sure you are suggesting it does. What I'm after is the ongoing normalisation of Women playing Football until it's all just seen as Football. For people to consume this as they would consume a Men's World Cup.

The normalization of gambling will help with that, I think.

The problem is, and will be for a while, that the women’s domestic club game is still not drawing very well. Of course, there’s a catch-22 in that it would do better if it had more competent deep-pocketed investors and it will only get those if there’s some hope of a long term ROI or, at least, prestige and social cachet for the owners, and the only way that either one of those happens is if becomes more popular.

It seems like they need to find a way to partner with MLS because MLS has the good stadiums. Playing on AstroTurf in second rate college football stadiums is not going to draw fans.

[Hot Pepsi]

I suppose there is something to be said about gender equality in a man suffering this. I suspect most female Football fans could offer a similar story or two with such reactions to them watching Men's games. Possibly more prevalent 10-20 years ago now, though?

I’ve felt like that. I never feel comfortable going to a women’s soccer, women’s volleyball, or women’s ice hockey game by myself. And I certainly wouldn’t go to the women’s gymnastics without a female friend. Otherwise I fear that people will think I’m a perv. I worry too much what other people think.

[Fussbudget]

Record ratings in France: 44 percent audience share,

https://twitter.com/tf1pro/status/1137253655143432192?s=21"]https://twitter.com/tf1pro/status/1137253655143432192

"Fiers d'être bleues" is a bit of a headfuck, grammatically.

[Patrick Thistle]

I don't see that as disagreeing with what I wrote. Though I'm not sure you are suggesting it does. What I'm after is the ongoing normalisation of Women playing Football until it's all just seen as Football. For people to consume this as they would consume a Men's World Cup.

Yeah maybe I'm confusing myself as well.

I think what I'm inexpertly articulating is that what I'd like is for people to watch women's football because it's football and not out of a sense of they should make an effort to watch women's football because it's women and therefore a worthy cause to be supported. That might be exactly what you're saying too.

I really enjoyed the women's international I went to the other night. The atmosphere was different. There were loads of kids and families there. No drunken sweary louts. No tossers chanting obscenity. It was a pleasant evening with a competitive game and Wales won! I really enjoyed it in a way that I don't always enjoy going to men's football. (At Arsenal earlier this year my friend challenged a bigot standing behind us who was shouting homophobic slurs. It just made it a toxic experience.) I'm going to go to future women's internationals because it was enjoyable.

[Patrick Thistle]

I’ve felt like that. I never feel comfortable going to a women’s soccer, women’s volleyball, or women’s ice hockey game by myself. And I certainly wouldn’t go to the women’s gymnastics without a female friend. Otherwise I fear that people will think I’m a perv. I worry too much what other people think.

Similar feelings. Can I rave on about Laura O'Sullivan the way I used to about Joe Hart without people thinking I'm a lech? Can I say I love Lucy Bronze the way I used to love Salop's bottle blonde heart throb Dean Spink?

[Janik]

The normalization of gambling will help with that, I think.

I'm not convinced by that. Gambling on Football is extremely prevalent in the UK. But that is almost exclusively Men's Football. But driving past a betting shop earlier*, the board they had up in the window advertising the biggest upcoming match was referencing Scotland Men vs Cyprus Men. No evidence whatsoever that the WWC was ongoing. Same online. I've just gone on to the website of one of the leading bookmakers, and clicked on their Football section. The bets available are listed by competition type. Top is Euro 2020 qualification matches (20 showing odds, more can accessed via a tab), then it's the Nations League finals. After that come special offers (a League of Ireland game, and MLS game, a combination bet on the Copa America). And then inidivdual Copa America matches and groups. The Women's World Cup is there, but only under a link to another section called "get a price" or by maximising a tab that appeared minimised when loading the page.

* - there are two High Street betting shops in my town of ~18,000. Each with comprehensive window displays of popular options to gamble on. Nobody could be in any doubt what service the shop is selling. Previously I've found some Americans a bit taken aback by how open this all is in Britain.

[ursus arctos]

I would posit that the impact of gambling may well be very different in the US and UK.

There is a long tradition in the UK that brings with it a certain conservatism (and male chauvinism) that isn't anywhere near as entrenched over here.

Just as attendance trends have diverged to a certain extent in North America and the Continent

[Janik]

I think what I'm inexpertly articulating is that what I'd like is for people to watch women's football because it's football and not out of a sense of they should make an effort to watch women's football because it's women and therefore a worthy cause to be supported. That might be exactly what you're saying too.

Not quite. It's where I want the world to be, certainly. But I think it's going to take some work to achieve that, and I'm not sure it can be achieved by the media organisations simply promoting the thing better as the push they have given in the past hasn't been matched by uptake. But it's not hard work, we just need to behave like it's already the case and that will help make it more likely to become generally true.

I guess what I'm advocating is an amount of deliberate obtuseness when someone resists the idea that it's all just Football. And also flagging up that we, on here, maybe haven't previously walked the walk on this front.

[Diable Rouge]

Not quite. It's where I want the world to be, certainly. But I think it's going to take some work to achieve that, and I'm not sure it can be achieved by the media organisations simply promoting the thing better as the push they have given in the past hasn't been matched by uptake. But it's not hard work, we just need to behave like it's already the case and that will help make it more likely to become generally true.

I guess what I'm advocating is an amount of deliberate obtuseness when someone resists the idea that it's all just Football. And also flagging up that we, on here, maybe haven't previously walked the walk on this front.

Coverage of female sports teams has certainly improved dramatically in Ireland over the last decade - not in soccer, perhaps, but definitely in relation to womens' Gaelic football and camogie initially, before being expanded to rugby and the hockey team. Attendances have yet to rise in line with the increased interest (aside from the finals in Croke Park), but female stars from the various sports would be known to sports fans in general, such as Valerie Mulcahy, Aisling Thompson and Niamh Briggs.

[Hot Pepsi]

I would posit that the impact of gambling may well be very different in the US and UK.

There is a long tradition in the UK that brings with it a certain conservatism (and male chauvinism) that isn't anywhere near as entrenched over here.

Just as attendance trends have diverged to a certain extent in North America and the Continent

Yeah, seeing betting shops in high-rent retail areas in the UK is one of those things that stands out to Americans as a big difference. That and the availability of hard liquor everywhere.

It’s not my thing, but my understanding is gambling here will mostly be controlled by big companies. As such, they’re always looking for the next frontier, and women’s sports and sports outside the US would fit that description.

On the other hand, maybe the bookies can make better margins off of the established sports like the NFL because it attracts more “dumb money.” Women’s soccer might only attract bets from people who actually follow it closely, and that can’t be as attractive to bookies. But that’s also largely true for men’s soccer.

[Nesta]

I loved Laura Bassett at the last world cup

I loved her slightly less by the end.

[Patrick Thistle]

I loved her slightly less by the end.

Harsh.

[ursus arctos]

Another bit about gambling here.

At least initially, many states will restrict sports gambling to casinos (as Nevada does).

Women represent more than 40 percent of the US casino audience, and that percentage is rising steadily, Sports books will go out of their way to attract that audience.

[Nesta]

Lack of interest from the betting industry is a positive for the women's game I'd say.

[ursus arctos]

A further distinction between our two markets