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    Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
    I wouldn't say I'm at peace with the idea of England winning a tournament but it might be that the decades of nagging fear and stomach-churning dread that they may do so one day is worse than it actually finally happening.
    I feel like this. Actually win one and then when life goes on the same afterwards a lot of England fans might think "oh, was that it?"

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      Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
      two balls on the pitch....
      Laser pointer's gleaming
      Ref don't give a shit
      Matterface is creaming

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        Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post

        What didn’t help was the stupid commentary focusing on the first challenge from the Danish #5 who didn’t touch Sterling and ignoring the hip check from Jensen. I thought it was a penalty because of the latter.
        That was the heavier contact, but he was already falling over after feeling the first touch on his leg.

        I've always associated Sweet Caroline with the GAWA after hearing them singing it in Lyon during Euro 2016.

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          Shout for Scratchmonkey seconded.

          The extremes between blatant dive, which it wasn't, to nailed on penalty, which it wasn't, sum it up. The referee was perfectly positioned and gave what he saw. When it is slowed down it reinforces your initial view, whatever that might be.

          Depending on how things pan out, the penalty might be a boon for the anti England brigade. Should England go on to win the tournament (I think Italy will prevail, despite England's 100 per cent winning record in major tournament finals) it can be the 2021 equivalent of the 1966 crossbar goal.

          ​​​​​​​A symbol of the incredibly favorable treatment from referees England have received down the years when it comes to disallowed goals, red cards and of course the application of VAR which if I have it right was (a) applied too rigorously in 2018, thus benefiting England and (b) applied not rigorously enough thus far in 2021, thus benefiting England.

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            Originally posted by EIM View Post
            The England celebrations are odd. I like the team, but the atmosphere sort of goes on around me. Like a party in my flat that I'm not invited to. I'm happy enough that they won, but it doesn't feel like my victory.
            Yeah, this. Although I'm lucky that I'm not living in a city or even a big town so most of the noise and celebration is geographically distant from me too.

            I'm in a team at work that generally has no interest in football at all, several of them don't even have a team that they would nominally claim to support, but yesterday they were all chatting excitedly about watching the game in the evening. I suppose it's nice that people get caught up in it and excited at the prospect but the inverse snob part of me is also thinking "Why don't you go down and support your local club once in a while?"

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              I echo the sentiment above that it was only a shame it had to be the Danes who lost last night. I wish it had been the Welsh.

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                "First of all, there was a second ball on the field and normally that's classified as a disturbing factor for the players, so play should have been stopped. Then you can see contact between [Joakim Maehle's] knee and [Sterling's] calf, but Sterling goes into this challenge with intent [to get a penalty]. You can see that his body leans forwards. He wants to provoke the contact - he wants to cheat a little bit, you might say. You can also see how he pulls his leg up again and waves it around a bit. Referees see the whole sequence of movements and often make their decisions based on the way players fall. And from the way he falls here, that's just not enough to justify awarding a penalty." German TV refereeing expert Manuel Gräfe evaluates the game's key scene.

                It was a dive, there is simply no other way to describe it. But England deserved to win, so congratulations to England fans on here, you've certainly waited long enough. Not sure I agree about the way they played last night - it seemed to me more like the England of old, lots of basic errors, lots of hoofing it out of defence and relying for a set-piece goal on to the heads of the Harrys (although England's opening goal showed that they can play football now and then). Denmark was out of gas, but what a fantastic team.

                My sister texted me - "You're going through a lot of teams in this tournament." If I could find it in my heart to back England, that would certainly increase Italy's chances on Sunday. But I'm also starting to come around a bit - have your damned trophy at last, have a beer and then shut up about blah blah years of hurt and stop playing that fucking song. Every German TV and radio hack the past few days has started their report with "Iss it cumming höm?" and then this morning, "It's cumming höm!" Fire them all.

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                  Originally posted by Uncle Ethan View Post
                  Shout for Scratchmonkey seconded.

                  Depending on how things pan out, the penalty might be a boon for the anti England brigade. Should England go on to win the tournament (I think Italy will prevail, despite England's 100 per cent winning record in major tournament finals) it can be the 2021 equivalent of the 1966 crossbar goal.
                  Can see that happening yes. The more clear cut infringement of Braithewaite positioning himself between Saka and Sterling in the England wall has been ignored on thread, except for one comment along the lines of Glad it wasn't noticed. The stray ball not being noticed has a lot more reaction.

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                    My brother has put a video clip he filmed of Kane taking the penalty and subsequent limbs on the family WhatsApp group, and all I can think is "that really looks like a super-spreader event"...

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                      "L'aiuto dell' arbitro"

                      https://twitter.com/CorSport/status/1413044066233769989?s=20

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                        What's the significance of "Zuppa Inglese" in this context? I know it literally means "English soup" and actually means "trifle", but is there an idiomatic Italian understanding that means this headline makes sense? Or is it just a phrase that includes the words "inglese"?

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                          Originally posted by Crystal Staples View Post
                          Can see that happening yes. The more clear cut infringement of Braithewaite positioning himself between Saka and Sterling in the England wall has been ignored on thread, except for one comment along the lines of Glad it wasn't noticed. The stray ball not being noticed has a lot more reaction.
                          Yes, that was me pointed that out. Fair point. The second ball on the field was right next to Sterling's run and could have affected play, but in the end I don't think it did. The Dane standing next to the wall had absolutely no influence on the behaviour of the wall or the flight of the free-kick, and probably not on the goalkeeper's sight line (that not being a factor in the existence of that law in any case). So in both cases, they would have been tenuous reasons for cancelling the goal/penalty decision, despite being justified in both cases by a strict interpretation of the laws.

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                            Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post

                            I feel like this. Actually win one and then when life goes on the same afterwards a lot of England fans might think "oh, was that it?"
                            Winning stuff is weird. I've seen Quins win the league twice, and afterwards it's relief and euphoria, but apart from the memories there's not a huge amount to talk about. When you lose you can obsess about it forever, dissecting every real and perceived injustice and everything that went wrong almost ad infinitum.

                            Even after England won the Rugby World Cup in 2003 it felt almost flat, as that was essentially the culmination of the team's journey (it pretty much disintegrated through retirement and injury over the next two years). The only truly massive feeling of joy that's overwhelmed me was the 2016 Grand Slam, because it had been over a decade of garbage and near misses.

                            Edit: Probably also the 2005 Ashes for the same reasons.

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                              I wouldn't say I'm at peace with the idea of England winning a tournament but it might be that the decades of nagging fear and stomach-churning dread that they may do so one day is worse than it actually finally happening.
                              I made a similar point on the ABE/AEB thread.
                              If the sky didn't fall in after Liverpool finally won the league, it ain't going to fall in now.

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                                Originally posted by Eggchaser View Post

                                Winning stuff is weird. I've seen Quins win the league twice, and afterwards it's relief and euphoria, but apart from the memories there's not a huge amount to talk about. When you lose you can obsess about it forever, dissecting every real and perceived injustice and everything that went wrong almost ad infinitum.

                                Even after England won the Rugby World Cup in 2003 it felt almost flat, as that was essentially the culmination of the team's journey (it pretty much disintegrated through retirement and injury over the next two years). The only truly massive feeling of joy that's overwhelmed me was the 2016 Grand Slam, because it had been over a decade of garbage and near misses.

                                Edit: Probably also the 2005 Ashes for the same reasons.
                                A similar thing would be the wait for a Brit to win Wimbledon. When he did it the first time it was massive, a bursting of the dam of 75 years (or however long it was) of frustration. Then he did it again, and everyone was like "Oh, did he? Oh, well done I suppose"

                                The England obsession with the football thing is simply because the majority of the country have never seen them win anything. Let us have this one, and next time we'll be a lot more bearable.

                                (The date went ok, btw).

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                                  Did you drop the hand?

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                                    The talk of "two balls on the pitch", "contact in the box" and "too close to the wall" are taking on extra meaning now.

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                                      Originally posted by lambers View Post
                                      The talk of "two balls on the pitch", "contact in the box" and "too close to the wall" are taking on extra meaning now.
                                      Anyone else singing these to “Three Lions on a shirt”?

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                                        Originally posted by imp View Post

                                        Yes, that was me pointed that out. Fair point. The second ball on the field was right next to Sterling's run and could have affected play, but in the end I don't think it did. The Dane standing next to the wall had absolutely no influence on the behaviour of the wall or the flight of the free-kick, and probably not on the goalkeeper's sight line (that not being a factor in the existence of that law in any case). So in both cases, they would have been tenuous reasons for cancelling the goal/penalty decision, despite being justified in both cases by a strict interpretation of the laws.
                                        I thought that the more interesting thing was how the free kick was won in the first place. The Danes had a free kick out wide, and so packed a tight area outside the centre of the 18 yard box. When the kick was taken, it descended into a grappling match which the ref decided was more England than Denmark and blew for a Danish free kick in a much better area. It definitely looked like a set play and quite a clever one IMO.

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                                          Anyway, I'm going to put this here because it's brilliant and the perfect antidote to the pictures of our Government pretending to like football.

                                          https://twitter.com/tezilyas/status/1412918968713633793

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                                            That's fantastic, Snake.

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                                              Originally posted by pebblethefish View Post

                                              A similar thing would be the wait for a Brit to win Wimbledon. When he did it the first time it was massive, a bursting of the dam of 75 years (or however long it was) of frustration. Then he did it again, and everyone was like "Oh, did he? Oh, well done I suppose"

                                              The England obsession with the football thing is simply because the majority of the country have never seen them win anything. Let us have this one, and next time we'll be a lot more bearable.

                                              (The date went ok, btw).
                                              But it was a independence-voting remoaner Scot, so the coverage wasn't quite the same.

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                                                Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post

                                                I thought that the more interesting thing was how the free kick was won in the first place. The Danes had a free kick out wide, and so packed a tight area outside the centre of the 18 yard box. When the kick was taken, it descended into a grappling match which the ref decided was more England than Denmark and blew for a Danish free kick in a much better area. It definitely looked like a set play and quite a clever one IMO.
                                                It was definitely planned - they did similar on that early corner where they packed everyone into the six yard box and tried to work the odds that at least one England player would foul in the ensuing melee. It was clever and effective but would get tiresome if every team started doing it.

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                                                  England did it a lot at the Russia world cup to good effect, most obviously against Panama. Colombia were freaked out by it as well, regarded it as straight up cheating

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                                                    Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
                                                    That's fantastic, Snake.
                                                    Agree.

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