Is the Swiss Franc worth investing in? FRA -SUI

[Ray de Galles]

I do not but I feel like I should. (That abomination was re-released a couple of years ago as a retro option. Yikes.)

I presumed he was some Salopian who is know to everyone as "Austrian Kev", "Mickey Vienna" or somesuch.

[About Average Motherwell]

Xhaka, when the Gauls fell

Sommer, his arms wide open?

(Bloody hell, what a game! Shame to see France go out, I thought, but can't argue the Swiss didn't deserve it.)

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/JibbaJabb/status/1409634796901330956?s=20

[EIM]

A wonderful, wonderful day of football. Everything I love about the sport. It has lifted my mood considerably, and it wasn't even bad to start with. Fantastic.

See you all on the Copa America thread for a 0-0 or two.

[jwdd27]

I was at work today from 1-10, but was able to console myself that these were the last matches I wouldn't be able to watch in their entirety, and they'd probably be dour, low scoring affairs anyway. Doesn't look like I missed much.

[About Average Motherwell]

If it makes you feel any better, I watched the first ten minutes of Spain-Croatia and went "na, this doesn't seem that great, maybe I'll do some editing".

[Patrick Thistle]

I presumed he was some Salopian who is know to everyone as "Austrian Kev", "Mickey Vienna" or somesuch.

I'll check with my brother. I met the Swedish Salop fan who sadly passed away last year.

[scratchmonkey]

Where does that rank in Swiss victories all time?

To judge from my Swiss friend who called me after the pens (he texted beforehand saying "mboopi to miss", which I'm not sure was childish name-calling, shaky fingers, or the drink) to scream incoherently for 30 seconds, it's the tippy-top so far.

Absolutely mental game, top marks to the Swiss for not folding.

[RobW]

So much to enjoy last night. The Argentine ref was magnificent throughout and his pointing to the spot was reminiscent of Codesal in WC90. Loved him telling the Swiss not to go celebrating the shoot out until VAR had checked Sommer's foot.
McCoist was on excellent form. Usually mild mannered and jokey, he seemed genuinely upset that Mbappe chose to use his left foot instead of his right for that chance in extra time.
Found the ranting about Pogba by ITV pundits was step OTT - the guy had a blinding tournament, scored a peach of a goal last night but Keane, Vieira and Neville just laid into him. Surprised Souness didn't turn up to give his thoughts.

Unbelievable game of football.

[Ray de Galles]

The post-match panel's discussion of Pogba was perverse and, crucially, almost all through the prism of Man United rather than his performances for France.

Maybe not a surprise with Neville and Keane present but pitifully parochial.

[Satchmo Distel]

It's odd that France had such a weak defence and ball retention for a World Cup winner. They'd get slaughtered by their Euro 2000 side, and obviously Xavi's Spain.

[Kevin S]

It's odd that France had such a weak defence and ball retention for a World Cup winner. They'd get slaughtered by their Euro 2000 side, and obviously Xavi's Spain.

That central pentagon - Blanc, Desailly, Deschamps, Viera, Zidane - would slaughter pretty much any side ever.

[Snake Plissken]

Top statting.

https://twitter.com/RichJolly/status/1409813998556569600

[About Average Motherwell]

The post-match panel's discussion of Pogba was perverse and, crucially, almost all through the prism of Man United rather than his performances for France.

Maybe not a surprise with Neville and Keane present but pitifully parochial.

As the agriculture...agriculturalist...most agricultural of amateur centre-backs, I'm definitely no expert on how top-level midfielders ought to play, but I must admit that I just don't get the "he doesn't put a shift in" criticisms. Not having the money for sky (or, let's be honest, the inclination to chase down a different stream for a game I fancy), I've only really seen him for France, where he's largely had a go at getting games by the scruff by driving forwards and spanking ludicrous passes, and has also put it about in the best tradition of the contact sport.

So my question is, what exactly is it that he does or doesn't do for Man United? Does he really just cruise for domestic games, or does he shift up a gear for international games - which seems entirely understandable to me - or is United's system especially bad, or are his colleagues especially bad at playing that system, or is it just 100% racist Brit bullshit because he's a black man who dares to get pissy at his teammates sometimes? Frankly, Keane's punditry form - not racist Brit form, of course - along with everything I know about the world inclines me to think the last, but I have non-arsehole MU friends who assert that he's just not all that great at club level, and he doesn't seem like someone who's just generally out of love with football. OTF, enlighten me.

(First person to make a McTominay joke wins precisely 1 point, like England)

[Satchmo Distel]

is it just 100% racist Brit bullshit because he's a black man who dares to get pissy at his teammates sometimes?

Yes, absolutely. If a white player had played like him this tournament, he'd be hailed as a genius.

[elguapo4]

Maybe there's some racism involved, although foreign black players like Henry and Vieria were treated like gods. For my own opinion, and probably Roy Keane's, it's mainly frustration in that he can obviously do better for Manchester United.

[Discordant Resonance]

Agreed, if you were analysing which Man United player gave the most consistent midfield displays for their club last season, McTominay would undoubtedly top the list, and even the much-maligned Fred showed somewhat of an improvement over his performances of previous years. By contrast, Pogba's club form came very much in fits and starts compared with his regular French displays, and as for any accusations of racism, none of the same criticisms have been levelled at Wan-Bissaka, Rashford or Greenwood, but Maguire and De Gea have also often come under the microscope, so more about marquee players getting held to the highest standards.

[scratchmonkey]

or is United's system especially bad

I think this is probably the closest to the actual reason why Pogba is inconsistent with United -- and it's not that United's system is "bad" per se, it's just not a good fit for Pogba. At this point we have ample evidence (his time at Juventus, France in 2018) that Pogba performs at his best as the most offensive midfielder in a central three, which allows him the freedom to roam to the right spot on the pitch and do outrageously skillful things, something that I would say in modern football is best typified by the "free 8" that you see played by Manchester City, with KDB and Bernardo Silva in particular doing well in that role (you could argue that Barella serves a very similar role for Inter).

Instead, OGS prefers to play more like a 4-2-3-1 with something approaching a classic 10, a system that works extremely well for Bruno Fernandes, and one where Pogba doesn't really have a spot, something that's then exacerbated by Pogba's tendency to take multiple touches on the ball, which has two knock-ons:

1. It slows down the play, which is exactly the opposite of what the OGS system wants, which is to get the ball into the final third at the foot of one of the four main attackers as soon as possible, before the defenders can get set.

2. It increases the chance that somebody comes in and swipes the ball from Pogba. When he's playing as part of a central three, this is less of a problem because there's multiple people who can cover in behind him, and in a slower system, it's less likely that his fullbacks are then caught moving at full tilt in precisely the wrong direction, meaning the defense recovers more rapidly.

When Pogba is played in a double-pivot at the base of midfield, which he sometimes does with United and as he was doing in this game for France, no. 2 above becomes especially dangerous because there's a limited number of people to cover. In the example of the equalizer against Switzerland, not even Kante and France's usually conservative fullback play was enough to prevent Xhaka to pick a pass that took most of the defense completely out of the play.

[Sporting]

Excellent analysis

[EIM]

Paul Pogba at Manchester United is the confirmation bias footballer. People see what they want to see. He's neither as good or as bad as people say. His form is as patchy as every other player we've had for the past few years. His issue is that his agent spends all his time trying to fix a move away, and Pogba says fuck all about it, so people are less forgiving of characteristics that could be mistaken for lack of effort.

It's a narrative driven game, and everything has to be seen through the prism of either end of a binary. Why doesn't Pogba play like he does for France? He dies sometimes. Other times he doesn't. But you see more of the other times because he plays more games with United.

I'd still sell him, mind.

[Ray de Galles]

I think this is probably the closest to the actual reason why Pogba is inconsistent with United -- and it's not that United's system is "bad" per se, it's just not a good fit for Pogba. At this point we have ample evidence (his time at Juventus, France in 2018) that Pogba performs at his best as the most offensive midfielder in a central three, which allows him the freedom to roam to the right spot on the pitch and do outrageously skillful things, something that I would say in modern football is best typified by the "free 8" that you see played by Manchester City, with KDB and Bernardo Silva in particular doing well in that role (you could argue that Barella serves a very similar role for Inter).

Instead, OGS prefers to play more like a 4-2-3-1 with something approaching a classic 10, a system that works extremely well for Bruno Fernandes, and one where Pogba doesn't really have a spot, something that's then exacerbated by Pogba's tendency to take multiple touches on the ball, which has two knock-ons:

1. It slows down the play, which is exactly the opposite of what the OGS system wants, which is to get the ball into the final third at the foot of one of the four main attackers as soon as possible, before the defenders can get set.

2. It increases the chance that somebody comes in and swipes the ball from Pogba. When he's playing as part of a central three, this is less of a problem because there's multiple people who can cover in behind him, and in a slower system, it's less likely that his fullbacks are then caught moving at full tilt in precisely the wrong direction, meaning the defense recovers more rapidly.

When Pogba is played in a double-pivot at the base of midfield, which he sometimes does with United and as he was doing in this game for France, no. 2 above becomes especially dangerous because there's a limited number of people to cover. In the example of the equalizer against Switzerland, not even Kante and France's usually conservative fullback play was enough to prevent Xhaka to pick a pass that took most of the defense completely out of the play.

That's excellent analysis and to be fair to Keane & Neville they did skim the surface of that issue in the post-match analysis with quite a few references to Pogba "not being able to lay in a midfield two at United [ding]".

Which only begged the questions :

'Why do "United" play him there then?' and 'Why are you spending so much time talking about "United" when Switzerland have just knocked out France in an epic?!"