Germany Hungary

[ursus arctos]

I could easily see them closing the ground for a future DFB match.

[ursus arctos]

And fixed.

[Sporting]

And fixed.

What's fixed?

[Sporting]

If the rainbow gesture is political, so is taking the knee and as far as I know there's been no punishment for this.

Maybe ad hoc knows: how much do the Hungarian blackshirts represent national public opinion?

[ursus arctos]

What's fixed?

The umlaut on Köln

[ad hoc]

Maybe ad hoc knows: how much do the Hungarian blackshirts represent national public opinion?

I'd say similar to the knee-booing, skinheaded, most visible element of England's matchgoing support. Which is to say they're unrepresentative in their aggressiveness but uncomfortably close to a fairly widely held viewpoint in the population at large. For people who vote Fidesz in Hungary substitute people who voted for Brexit in England

[Patrick Thistle]

It's a shame Germany didn't say anything and just lit up the arena on the night. Easier to beg forgiveness than seek permission and all that.

[imp]

German state news interviewed a local LGBTIQ action group planning to give out 10,000 rainbow flags before the game tonight (provided Uefa don't display their respect by chasing them off the premises with taser sticks and attack dogs), so there should be plenty of colour on display.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

When I visited Budapest two summers ago, the Roginette and I spent our evenings in the student ruin bars, and our favourite bar overlooking the Danube round from our hotel (the Why Not Bar) that was pretty cleary a 'gay bar'. So it always confuses me a little to read about the apparent levels of intolerance in Hungary, because my memories of the place are so different.

[Nefertiti2]

German state news interviewed a local LGBTIQ action group planning to give out 10,000 rainbow flags before the game tonight (provided Uefa don't display their respect by chasing them off the premises with taser sticks and attack dogs), so there should be plenty of colour on display.

Orban- these colours do run

https://twitter.com/viktoriaserdult/status/1407613871498616833?s=20

[Nefertiti2]

When I visited Budapest two summers ago, the Roginette and I spent our evenings in the student ruin bars, and our favourite bar overlooking the Danube round from our hotel (the Why Not Bar) that was pretty cleary a 'gay bar'. So it always confuses me a little to read about the apparent levels of intolerance in Hungary, because my memories of the place are so different.

Budapest isn't Hungary- and the visibility of gay people has nothing to do with legislation against LBGTQ people, which is usually just a way of stoking the culture war

https://twitter.com/hattertarsasag/status/1407407964902899715?s=20

[imp]

When I visited Budapest two summers ago, the Roginette and I spent our evenings in the student ruin bars, and our favourite bar overlooking the Danube round from our hotel (the Why Not Bar) that was pretty cleary a 'gay bar'. So it always confuses me a little to read about the apparent levels of intolerance in Hungary, because my memories of the place are so different.

Did you try applying for a job there as an openly gay person? Did you try coming out to your Fidesz-voting parents?

[ad hoc]

Hungary, in common with most of Eastern Europe, is pretty backward when it comes to issues such as LGBTQ. And this is especially true rurally (which is where the big amount of Orban's votes come from). Cities are different stories, and happily the youth are much more forward looking (even in my small town, it seems to me that kids are very modern and progressive on this issue). I'd say that in general, even in small towns, kids are pretty much European/Global now, and have no truck with the line peddled by the churches, the middle aged, and older, and various governments. I have no idea if Orban even cares about gay issues one way or another, but he uses it as part of his shtick to whip up his core vote. In which he's not really different from right wing politicians anywhere in Europe, east or west.

[jameswba]

Everything Ad Hoc says is true for Slovakia, except that the current government (to give it credit for something) does not compare with Orban's. As a teacher at a secondary school, I'd say the vast majority of our students are very progressive on LGBTQ issues and a lot are passionate about the subject. Some have said it's their main source of conflict with older generations.

[Satchmo Distel]

To give an analogy, don't use a stay in Miami to form an opinion about Florida.

[Discordant Resonance]

UEFA contorting themselves in rather Jesuitical fashion, ironically enough:

https://twitter.com/UEFA/status/1407652489101557766

[DCI Harry Batt]

https://twitter.com/NickMiller79/status/1407662303298953217

[G-Man]

If you need a hole dug, I recommend UEFA. They dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig and work the whole night through.

[G-Man]

Kicker ran a powerful editorial comment on UEFA's anti-rainbow decision, which the publication elsewhere calls "an own-goal". The final line is pitch-perfect. I've translated the text; free to copy-and-paste (and to correct any typos I might have made):


Diversity, yes -- but only if it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings

On Tuesday, UEFA issued a statement to show how hard it is fighting for diversity and human rights. After many flowery words about their “numerous” campaigns and activities and their firm undertaking to “contribute their part towards positive change”, the decisive part was almost overlooked: that UEFA forbids Munich’s European Championship arena to be lit up in rainbow colours for Germany's game against Hungary to take a stand against a homophobic law passed by Hungary's parliament the previous week.
Diversity and human rights, yes — but only if it really doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings.

Since this attitude is nothing new, nobody will have been surprised by UEFA’s decision. An organisation that has its leading competitions co-financed by dubious sponsors, and which has no problem staging European Cup finals in places where some players do not dare to go to, certainly doesn’t want to come into conflict with a country whose capital is their new favourite trump-card.

As in the past Champions’ League season, Wembley is threatened with the withdrawal of the European Championship final: Budapest is always ready when Corona causes problems everywhere else in Europe, thereby threatening UEFA competition and income.

Of course, it’s already a sign of progress that UEFA now allows certain forms of protest at all, instead of immediately launching investigations, as it was in the past. But there’s still a depressingly long way to go before anyone falls for UEFA’s about “doing our part for positive change”. Yet, UEFA would have plenty opportunities to do so: with effective conditions and sanctions, with educational programmes at grassroots level, with the appropriate composition of its powerful committees.

But to really experience what it’s like when UEFA defends what’s really important to it, someone has to try to set up a Super League.

[imp]

Kicker's been getting reet political of late - and in a good way.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/mainz05en/status/1407718077765193736?s=21

[Discordant Resonance]

How sad - Orban cancels.

[Sean of the Shed]

Is this going to be the FRA-POR thread as well? It works better than the split threads we had for Group D IMO.

[Jobi1]

Hungary, in common with most of Eastern Europe, is pretty backward when it comes to issues such as LGBTQ. And this is especially true rurally (which is where the big amount of Orban's votes come from). Cities are different stories, and happily the youth are much more forward looking (even in my small town, it seems to me that kids are very modern and progressive on this issue). I'd say that in general, even in small towns, kids are pretty much European/Global now, and have no truck with the line peddled by the churches, the middle aged, and older, and various governments. I have no idea if Orban even cares about gay issues one way or another, but he uses it as part of his shtick to whip up his core vote. In which he's not really different from right wing politicians anywhere in Europe, east or west.

There have been some interesting stats going round in the reporting on this story this week, with some poll results suggesting a (perhaps surprisingly) healthy percentage of Hungarians support same-sex marriage, legal protections, etc., so it would appear the Orban government and the ultras don't speak for everybody in the country.

[johnr]

If it is, can I ask 'are the French team told to do that 'let's make sure we bump every other player's shoulders 20 minutes before the game', or is that something they might agree to do without managerial diktat'?