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    Oh that's too funny, Pepe furiously indicated to his keeper which way the Benzema penalty would go, but got ignored - though he would've been quite right.

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      I liked that the German and Hungarian goals separated by around a minute were both headers scored despite the player getting a massive shove from an opponent.

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        It's a shame that everybody couldn't watch the two games at the same time, because it's important to get Both Sides of the Story.

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          https://twitter.com/omyles90/status/1407803550328098818?s=21

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            Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View Post

            I guess it depends whether the intention was to win the ball, same as when an outfield player makes a tackle. The only other interpretation could be dangerous play, like a studs up tackle.

            imp to thread
            I thought yellow and a penalty were the fair sanction as he was clearly going for the ball. Having said that, he couldn't have complained that much about a red card either - arguably brutal foul play.

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              Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post

              There must be better players on the bench. He's been crap in all 3 games. Starting him tonight was an odd decision.
              Yep, baffling, and even more baffling that he stayed on the whole game. Goretzka needed to be in, given that Müller was out, and it was quickly clear how much Germany missed him. Against Portugal Müller was the pivot of all their attacks and goals because of his movement - Gosens took the plaudits, but Müller was my MOTM. Without him, they look tentative. Interesting that Germany almost scored when Kroos got fed up and ran at the Hungarian defence. But that's what a player like Sané is meant to be doing.

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                Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
                I liked that the German and Hungarian goals separated by around a minute were both headers scored despite the player getting a massive shove from an opponent.
                The Hungarian didn't look like he'd have got there without being propelled by the defender.
                I missed the German equaliser on my tablet, so was watching it being shown on the big TV showing the other match. Which meant I missed the Hungarian response on my tablet.

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                  I thought that Renato Sanches's contribution tonight was the best individual performance that I've seen in the tournament so far.

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                    The organisers of the Carpathian Brigade (those black shirt guys) sent a message to their members beforehand telling them where to meet so they could march to the stadium and told them “under German law, you can easily be taken away on trumped-up charges, and you can be heavily fined if you don't obey their rules... If you feel your tattoo is not compatible with local laws, make sure you cover it up or you could face a fine of hundreds of euros.”

                    I don't think you need to think long and hard about what kind of tattoos we might be talking about here

                    I'll confess to a lot of mixed feelings about the game /score etc. Obviously happy not to have to see those fascist scum again and Orbán losing is pleasing (especially that he was so scared of some rainbows that he wouldn't attend last night). But obviously know a lot of Hungarians (my own daughter is now a citizen) and the team played brilliantly (I understand Napoli are now talking to Rossi)

                    But having said all that Goretzka's trolling was inspired

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                      This is an alternate viewpoint from the anti Hungary vibe (Cseh is a brilliant force for good in Hungarian politics and a current MEP)
                      https://twitter.com/katka_cseh/status/1407984085855842306

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                        I'm not going to feel sorry for the representative national side because people are seeing them as a representation.

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                          I think it''s fair to direct anger at the black shirted fans (a la Goretska), and Orban and the government, and perhaps even to use the football team as a proxy for that (though I;m less sure about the latter) but this feels more apt to me
                          https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1407814655586750464?s=20

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                            Indeed, the duplicitous hypocrisy of German firms who have poured hundreds of millions into Orban's economy was very telling.

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                              Orban would use them as a proxy if they were successful.

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                                Of course he would, but that's true of all of the teams in the competition. I can think of lots of reasons not to support England, but the fact that Johnson will piggy back on their success is fairly low down on that list

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                                  It's quite high up my list, mind. So yeah.

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                                    I dunno. So much was made of the full ground and atmosphere in Budapest, when the conversation should have been elsewhere. It was sportswashing. I think any success by the Hungarian team would have been hijacked to normalise Orban and divert attention away from his policies. I'm delighted they're out. But I'll accept that I'm a petty and bitter man.

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                                      I also don't want any vindication for UEFA by seeing their cosying up to certain regimes bear any fruit.

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                                        I'm not trying to tell anyone they should have been supporting Hungary. Like I said I had a lot of mixed feelings about the game. But when I think about the reasons I didn't want Hungary to do well it was Orban, the Carpathian Brigade and so on. But I didn't apply that logic earlier when hoping for Poland to beat Sweden, for example. And my pro-Germany feelings came from the socially liberal people of Germany, who showed up with rainbow masks and so on, not the German government. So, it leaves me confused and conflicted. After all, I know lots of socially liberal people in Hungary, and people who are genuinely fighting against an authoritarian regime, and dealing with all of the shit that comes with that. I don't have any answers to any of this, it's football, and if we pay any attention to football between national teams, perhaps they have to be proxies, because that is what "national teams" are to some extent.

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                                          Originally posted by EIM View Post
                                          So much was made of the full ground and atmosphere in Budapest,
                                          Positively? I got the impression that the coverage of the crowds in Budapest was fairly negative - partly because of the concerns about the wisdom of letting so many people in, and partly because of the clearly and obviously unpleasant nature of the ultras.

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                                            Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                            Positively? I got the impression that the coverage of the crowds in Budapest was fairly negative - partly because of the concerns about the wisdom of letting so many people in, and partly because of the clearly and obviously unpleasant nature of the ultras.
                                            I saw nothing but positivity. Both from TV and social media.

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                                              Hungary were UEFA's benchmark of how they wanted their host countries to act. Full stadiums and VIP treatment of their officials, sponsors and guests with no restrictions. If they do this they UEFA don't give a shit about public health and will not only ignore, but silence protest against that nation's discriminatory laws.
                                              See also Russia and Qatar.

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                                                Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                                if we pay any attention to football between national teams, perhaps they have to be proxies, because that is what "national teams" are to some extent
                                                You won't be surprised at my "this", for this.

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                                                  Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                                  Positively? I got the impression that the coverage of the crowds in Budapest was fairly negative - partly because of the concerns about the wisdom of letting so many people in, and partly because of the clearly and obviously unpleasant nature of the ultras.
                                                  I saw little mention of the large crowds and have not read a single report on the beliefs and behaviour of the blackshirt supporters who attend the games apart from on here.
                                                  I don't see any good reason to hold the players accountable for the actions and policies of their government, however. Unless, of course, they openly endorse it. I seem to remember there was fairly strong support for the North Korea national team on here in 2010, for example.

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                                                    Originally posted by EIM View Post
                                                    I dunno. So much was made of the full ground and atmosphere in Budapest, when the conversation should have been elsewhere. It was sportswashing.
                                                    So much this. I was cringing at halftime of the France-Hungary game when Alex Scott was enthusing about the noise and atmosphere in Budapest while the camera panned across the area where the knuckle-dragging fascists were gathered. Alex Scott is a) black and b) gay - these wrong 'uns would absolutely hate her, and yet there she was talking animatedly about the great atmosphere in the ground.

                                                    I know there are lots of lovely Hungarians out there in the world (indeed, I work with some of them such is the multinational nature of my workplace), but I'm pleased their team is out.

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