It's 1870 and 1982 all over again - France v Germany

[ursus arctos]

We all agree on that point.

[jason voorhees]

If only we had a ramshackle stadium, we'd be safe.

As far as Paraguay goes, that's not a barrier to implementation.

Sometimes I wonder if the monitors and computers cost more than the lumber and crumbling concrete of the entire stadium.

[ursus arctos]

They very well may in the developing world

And although I am generally pro-VAR, it is unconscionable for those expenditures to come at the expense of measure to ensure the health and safety of spectators

[San Bernardhinault]

I remain thoroughly opposed to VAR and think it’s rotten, but I think Janik has changed my mind here about this implementation. If you’re going to have VAR, then provided that “phase of play” is short enough it’s not much different to the advantage rule: just let play go briefly - and actually if the attack breaks down quickly then you have less disruption to the flow of the game.

I agree with everyone about not having a margin of error built in to VAR offside, mind you. That is nonsense and also creates a false impression to many viewers (although at least it seems to be far less intrusively used here with the annoying roll back and forward of single frames on screen while play is stopped that you see in the English top flight).

[Ray de Galles]

I'm not an expert on this, to put it mildly, but to be rendered unconscious by a blow would surely indicate a physical impact that could be exacerbated by further contact. The individual should be removed from that risk, assessed and treated. Letting Pavard play on was utterly reckless.

When I got knocked out playing football and then saw my GP the next day when I felt a bit ropey, he said that hairline fractures at the base of the skull often result from such impacts and packed me off to hospital for an x-ray.

Totally agree but concussion substitutes at least remove the tendency for a coach/player to have them play on as the only other option is to leave the field for good.

It gives a third option rather than the binary choice which will sadly often result in a player staying on when he shouldn't.

The initially temporary switch gets the player off the field and more fully checked by a doctor (ideally an independent one but not sure that's the case) to assess if they can return. I would presume that Pavard would have failed the test.

[E10 Rifle]

I oppose VAR because it ruins the spontaneity that is absolutely fundamental to the appeal of scoring a goal. And delays games needlessly. So it can be as forensic and "fair" as possible, it still wouldn't be the point. Because the former matters more to me than the latter

[anton pulisov]

How this isn't a penno is beyond me.

He manages to hit both of Mbappe's feet before touching the ball.

Edit: or perhaps they've interpreted it as Mbappe starts to jump up and initiate the fall before being touched?

Still, no matter what Mbappe is doing, it's dangerous tackle from behind on the ankles by the last defender, on a player broken through on goal. Red card and penalty.

[Felicity, I guess so]

Oh sure - it's just that that is the promotion we would be looking for, so it's directly relevant to me.

I know a song about that (Smithers-Jones)

[Nocturnal Submission]

The Pavard incident: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57501729

[john the revelator]

Innocently I thought that any reference to the Pavard incident would be about Gosen's assault and lack of sanction but turns out to be condemnation of French failure to remove concussed player -

Weirdly redolent of victim blaming

[Nocturnal Submission]

Innocently I thought that any reference to the Pavard incident would be about Gosen's assault and lack of sanction but turns out to be condemnation of French failure to remove concussed player -

Weirdly redolent of victim blaming

Well, it's hardly that, is it. There's criticism of the way that the French medical staff dealt with the situation, and rightly so. But you're right that the brutality of Gosens's challenge isn't getting quite the attention that it warrants.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Innocently I thought that any reference to the Pavard incident would be about Gosen's assault and lack of sanction but turns out to be condemnation of French failure to remove concussed player -

Weirdly redolent of victim blaming

Yeah. I've seen next to no mention anywhere other than maybe a couple of people on here, that Gosen should have been sent off. Not a whole heap of mention of how kimmich should at least have got a second yellow for kicking hernandez in the face, or that rudiger should have been sent off for fucking biting paul pogba. Throw in the hummels penalty and I kind of found myself wondering if Uli Hoeness was on the VAR.

I was listening to a certain podcast today and it was absolutely hilarious. There was reference to the widespread notion that it wasn't a proper bite because rudiger couldn't get proper purchase on the flat of pogba's back, as though there's a requirement to break the skin for it to be problematic, similarly pogba's failure to fall to the ground screaming like chielini or ivanovic or bakkal. Instead he just stood there pointing to his back telling the linesman that rudiger bit him. Now that is victim blaming. The issue here is that rudiger clearly bit him while giving him nipple cripplers. It not being as bad as a full suarez is kind of neither here nor there.

[imp]

Agreed: Gosens - straight red, no discussion. Fuck knows why he's in the team.
Not sure: Kimmich - first yellow was harsh, then to see the kick in the head as an intentional act was almost impossible in real time as he was falling when it happened. Plus, he should have had the free-kick as that was the first offence. But a friend of mine who played at a relatively high level many years ago said it was definitely intentional, and "anyone who's played football at a higher level knows it", which put me in my place, but then he's also pretty much a French national these days so he's not completely neutral in the matter.
Agreed: Rudiger - straight red, but huge credit to Pogba for not being a dick about it.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Not sure: Kimmich - first yellow was harsh, then to see the kick in the head as an intentional act was almost impossible in real time as he was falling when it happened. Plus, he should have had the free-kick as that was the first offence. But a friend of mine who played at a relatively high level many years ago said it was definitely intentional, and "anyone who's played football at a higher level knows it", which put me in my place, but then he's also pretty much a French national these days so he's not completely neutral in the matter.

I thought it was a booking for hernandez. It was pretty cynical, but the ball was on the ground. the only thing where kimmich put his foot was hernandez's face.

what did you think of the mbappe/hummels incident?

[imp]

Clear penalty, yellow for Hummels as he attempted to play the ball.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Does anyone else think Low was really late with his subs? I can't recall for certain but I think they were around 75" which doesn't leave a lot of time to get a feel for the game. And it was pretty clear long before then that Germany were getting their asses handed to them and something needed to change.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Uefa aren't going to take action against rudiger. They may be struggling on the pitch, but Germany can't complain about not getting the bounce of the ball with the decisions that's for sure.

[DCI Harry Batt]

I realise that, but was trying to enable a broader discussion.

Oh for sure, the English second division is awash with cash (and with clubs spending way beyond their means, of course, so awash with debt). And in a way I'm not aware of anywhere else in the world - though just because I'm not aware of it...