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    Underlines how much better things could have turned out for Abdelhak Nouri if the pitch side medical training at friendly matches was at the same level. Especially considering he had a known condition.

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      Originally posted by diggedy derek View Post
      A lot of luck is involved that's why it is 10% chance of survival for an out of hospital cardiac arrest. I was lucky I had some one close.by to me who had been trained in CPR and in a location with a defrib, I also witnessed an in hospital CA in which the nurses had to breakdown a door to get to my fellow patient and get the machine going. It `s not like on those programmes on T`tele like you see on these dramas.

      I feel for the players unprepared for watching that, at least from Erikssens side it's likely he has no recollection and only the coming round, although it might have been different for me as insane out longer and then put into a coma.

      What has been good I the raised awareness and at my work they have been raising awareness.

      For those interested UK coaching have launched a free online course: https://www.ukcoaching.org. Look for sudden cardiac arrest course.

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        https://twitter.com/DBUfodbold/status/1405920017615556609

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          Originally posted by Discordant Resonance View Post
          From that Guardian piece:

          “That was clear to me when I saw them trying to pull his tongue out of his throat. That’s not how you save a life. A minimal overflexion of the head is completely sufficient.”

          Yesterday, I read a paper on CPR from about four years ago pointing out that very often people think the first thing to do is to prevent the person from "swallowing their tongue" when in fact that's not at all the first thing to do in these cases.

          I'm not sure where the idea comes from. It's been a while since I took formal CPR training (shit...30 years?) but I cannot recall that ever coming up at all. And yet, it seems to be very common in all of the examples on football pitches in Europe.

          Perhaps there's a cultural oddity here that somehow that idea got passed around in Europe and not in North America.

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            Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
            A pedant writes...

            The headline is possibly wrong. An ICD and a pacemaker are two different things. There are devices that can do both and there a lot of different versions of it with different algorithms, but it's not clear from anything I've read what kind of ICD he got or what his specific diagnosis is.

            There are also a lot of reports saying he had a "heart attack." That's not really true either. A "heart attack" usually refers to myocardial infarction - when a block of the coronary artery is starving part of the heart muscle for oxygen - which isn't the same as sudden cardiac arrest, which is an electrical problem. They can be related, but none of the reports say he underwent an intervention for a coronary issue.

            I also saw some reports saying he got a "heart monitor." That's not right either. If he got an ICD, it does a hell of a lot more than just monitor. There are devices like that too, of course, but those external monitors players often wear now would probably do that. That's not what he needs. He needs something to shock his heart back into normal rhythm.
            Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 18-06-2021, 20:15.

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              Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post

              A pedant writes...

              The headline is possibly wrong. An ICD and a pacemaker are two different things. There are devices that can do both and there a lot of different versions of it with different algorithms, but it's not clear from anything I've read what kind of ICD he got or what his specific diagnosis is.

              There are also a lot of reports saying he had a "heart attack." That's not really true either. A "heart attack" usually refers to myocardial infarction - when a block of the coronary artery is starving part of the heart muscle for oxygen - which isn't the same as sudden cardiac arrest, which is an electrical problem. They can be related, but none of the reports say he underwent an intervention for a coronary issue.

              I also saw some reports saying he got a "heart monitor." That's not right either. If he got an ICD, it does a hell of a lot more than just monitor. There are devices like that too, of course, but those external monitors players often wear now would probably do that. That's not what he needs. He needs something to shock his heart back into normal rhythm.
              Indeed as I had, he had a Cardiac Arrest and not a heart attack.

              An ICD is however like a pacemaker, I think of mine as a pacemaker+, yes it monitors the heart, yes it acts as a pacemaker and helps regulate the heart heat and control the beats and he's it acts like a defibrillator and can issue a shock. I know this as it has done all of these to me.

              The headline I think works whilst slightly needing the pedentary police.to rule, but I think the article give s a good summary of the ICD and good to raise understanding.
              Last edited by wishis; 18-06-2021, 21:43.

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                It is an ICD, and the report I read said "cardiac arrest" without more detail.

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                  NZ cricketer Ewen Chatfield had his life saved in 1975 by Bernard Thomas after swallowing his tongue but that was after being hit by a cricket ball, not after a heart attack or cardiac arrest

                  https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/i...led-him-343403
                  Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 18-06-2021, 21:55.

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                    Originally posted by wishis View Post

                    Indeed as I had, he had a Cardiac Arrest and not a heart attack.

                    An ICD is however like a pacemaker, I think of mine as a pacemaker+, yes it monitors the heart, yes it acts as a pacemaker and helps regulate the heart heat and control the beats and he's it acts like a defibrillator and can issue a shock. I know this as it has done all of these to me.

                    The headline I think works whilst slightly needing the pedentary police.to rule, but I think the article give s a good summary of the ICD and good to raise understanding.
                    Yeah, the article is right. The headline confuses the problem a bit.

                    Pacemakers and ICDs have different functions to treat different possible problems.

                    Like yours, some devices are both, but they don't have to be.

                    ICDs that are only ICDs - sometimes called "shock boxes" - are increasingly rare, but they exist. They're cheaper. There are also pacemakers that are just pacemakers.*

                    It's not clear what Eriksen got or what his diagnosis is.

                    There are also cardiac resynchronization therapy devices, which pace both both sides of the heart to get them to synchronize. That's for people with heart failure, which is when the heart muscle is gradually going wonky. Those people are usually at risk for sudden cardiac death too, for reasons I forget, so they usually get a CRT-D, a CRT device with a defibrillator function. But there are CRT-P devices for people who'd rather not deal with the risk of inappropriate shocks and will just take their chances.

                    Traditionally, these devices have a little shiny "box" and then the leads, the wires, are connected at the top and go inside the heart. But those wires can break and lead to infection, etc. So there are now leadless pacemakers, they look like a AAA battery with a grappling hook at the end and sit in the ventricle, and there are ICDs with subcutaneous leads that are a less risky than the standard transvenous leads.

                    I used to write more about which is appropriate for which kind of patient, but have moved away from that kind of stuff and mostly just write about the industry in general.





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                      Daley Blind has an ICD. In fact it went off in a match last year. To be honest I think it's a bit mad that he's still playing professional football.

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                        Didn't Khalilou Fadiga carry on playing after having an ICD fitted as well? I remember a lot of consternation about it while he was at Bolton.

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                          Good moment in a match I think yesterday when the commentators were chatting about what happened to Eriksen and Taylor Twellman used it as a chance to talk about how as many people as possible should have CPR training because you never know when you might be in a situation where it could potentially mean everything to somebody. I'm hot and cold on Twellman as a commentator overall, this along with his constant drumbeat on taking care of players who might have concussions (he was apoplectic that Pavard was let back on the field) goes a long way for me.

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                            One of the channels here is repeating the classic France-West Germany semi from 1982, and has reached the point where Schumacher poleaxes Battiston - one disconcerting contrast with today is that the commentator merely pads about the impending arrival of the stretcher, and appears to show no concern for the condition of the player, who apparently remains completely immobile, not so much as moving a finger, whereas now that would be of paramount interest. Around 10-15 minutes later, we are informed that Battiston has no injury ribs or concussion, but that he is "asleep" (natural or medically-induced?).

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                              Which commentary?

                              I recall the Televisa guy who did the game (no English language coverage here) being sone what more concerned, but certainly not obsessed.

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                                Whichever of the British channels covered it at the time - a further oddity of the period was that Bobby Charlton was co-commentator/studio analyst, but he only spoke extremely rarely.

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                                  Does anyone know what Eriksen's current prognosis is?

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                                    Still undergoing various tests, but the family has moved back to Milano (where the kids are in school) and he has been seen out and about.

                                    There is some expectation that he will get a definitive opinion on a possible return by the end of the year.

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                                      That sounds about as positive as can be hoped for, thanks.

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                                        Agreed.

                                        I would love to see him play again, but having a full life is much more important, and he and his family seem to understand that well.

                                        I wonder whether the kids are at the same school that ursus minor attended, but haven't been able to find out (not that I've searched hard). Most of the overseas players who play for Inter or Milan live north of the city (often on or near Lake Como), as both training grounds and the international airport are up there.

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