Scotland's greatest tournament achievement?

[Discordant Resonance]

At least for the Republic, NI, England and Wales there are clearly defined criteria that one can use to determine when their national sides performed best at either the World Cup or the Euros, but would mere progression from this year's group stage really count as an historical high for Scotland? After all, reaching the last 16 of a tournament would be nothing new, so perhaps the eight-team Euro 92 would be the peak for the Caledonians?

[Jah Womble]

In terms of the Euros, probably, but Scotland's best tournament moment up until now must be the performance against Brazil in the 1974 World Cup - when they had a team to rival some of the best at the competition.

Four years later, they beat the much-fancied Dutch with Gemmill's wonder goal of course, but I think that the former was the greater achievement. Scotland were perhaps a little unlucky not to beat the then- world champions.

[blameless]

but would mere progression from this year's group stage really count as an historical high for Scotland?

Never having played in the knockout rounds of a WC or EC before, undoubtedly yes.

Euro 92 was bloody good fun, though - especially the look on Anatoly Byshovets' face during that final group game. There were odd glimpses of anger, and odd glimpses of embarrassment, but it was mostly "what the actual fuck is going on here? No, seriously, what's fucking happening?"

[imp]

Jah Womble Completely bossed Yugoslavia in the following game too - I watched it again recently and we were tantalisingly good. And heartbreakingly close, it goes without saying.

However, all that will be forgotten when we lift the trophy on July 11, lay waste to London, storm Westminster, burn down Buckingham Palace, then declare an independent socialist nation that has re-joined the EU with immediate effect.

[AMMS]

Have you guys never heard of the Kirin Cup or something? The 2006 Scotland side were unbeaten and didn't concede a goal and are almost certainly responsible for the development of tiki-taki, gegenpress and passing the ball backwards at bye-kicks.

[imp]

I always forget whom we vanquished for the Kirin Cup. Wasn't it Hong Kong and the Hungarian U17 squad?

[ursus arctos]

Bulgaria and Japan

[Gangster Octopus]

Close...

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Scotland's greatest tournament achievement is winning in bulgaria in 1987. It was apparently easier to win a world cup than win a qualifier away in sofia.

[My Name Is Ian]

1974 for me, too. If they'd scored one more goal against Yugoslavia they'd have won the group, and you almost can't legislate for Yugoslavia putting nine goals past Zaire. Four points and unbeaten after three matches under two points for a win is almost always enough to qualify from a tournament group, and they matched both Brazil and Yugoslavia in their matches against them.

(As an aside, one thing that I didn't know prior to today - and I don't know how this had previously escaped me - was that, even though they were permitted to take a 22 man squad, they only took 13 players to the 1954 World Cup finals. Following on from their "we're only going to the finals if we win the Home Internationals" debacle of four years earlier, the SFA were a trip, at the time.)

[Satchmo Distel]

1974 is a very good shout except they'd didn't complete the job.

1967 Home Internationals - beating the world champions on their home ground in front of almost 100,000 fans.

They beat Spain at home in the 1986 QFs.

Euros: IIRC they weren't far away in 1996, albeit with a far weaker side than in 1967 or 1974.

[Southport Zeb]

Scotland's win over the CIS in 1992 was so comprehensive that the opposition never played again.

[Gawpus]

The 74 side also managed to become the first ever team eliminated from a World Cup without losing a match. Until there's actually a side that makes it to the knockout rounds, the novelty of that 'achievement' is probably the greatest from some very slim pickings.

[Posty Webber]

I always wonder how they might have fared in ‘66, had the tournament qualification system allowed for 2 teams per qualifying group (as became the style later on), rather than the 1.

Both Celtic and Rangers were top sides at the time and as mentioned above, they beat England the following year.

[multipleman78]

Getting to the knockout stages would be the best achievement. We have played in two World Cup Finals with this 24 team set up and still managed to be one of the 8 teams eliminated in group stage.

It's a mental barrier that looms large over these players. Add in to the mix that in the group are 2 of the 4 World Cup semi final teams from 2018 and the task is even tougher.

I can see us doing a Scotland and ending up as the fifth best 3rd placed team after an agonising, last minute defeat to Croatia.

[Kevin S]

I always forget whom we vanquished for the Kirin Cup. Wasn't it Hong Kong and the Hungarian U17 squad?

Chris Hoy with the winner, wasn't it? #nichepun

[Kevin S]

Euros: IIRC they weren't far away in 1996, albeit with a far weaker side than in 1967 or 1974.

The squad looks ok on paper and were unlucky in how they were knocked out, but scoring only one goal (McCoist v Switzerland) in three matches was never going to see them get too far.

Then again, Euro 96 was really not a goal-fest at all (2.06 per match - most Euros since there are over 2.5).

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

The 2019 Women's World Cup - where they were 3 - 0 up with 20 minutes to go, in a game where a win would have been enough to progress - is probably the closest they've got to reaching the knockout stages (or at least, the most spectacular collapse).

[Jah Womble]

Jah Womble Completely bossed Yugoslavia in the following game too - I watched it again recently and we were tantalisingly good. And heartbreakingly close, it goes without saying.

However, all that will be forgotten when we lift the trophy on July 11, lay waste to London, storm Westminster, burn down Buckingham Palace, then declare an independent socialist nation that has re-joined the EU with immediate effect.

Please, come on down and do it. (Regardless of how you get on at the Euros.)

It seemed to be down to a lack of goals all round in 1974. I can recall watching the Zaire game as a twelve-year-old and wondering in the second half why the hell Scotland weren't laying waste to this p*ss-weak side, rather than tippy-tapping it around. (Yugoslavia's dismantling of the Africans a few days later rather emphasised my point.)

In the Brazil match, the Scots were genuinely unlucky, but they really should have beaten the Yugoslavs in that group decider. This was another occasion where I can recall thinking (or saying to my dad) after Jordan's late, late equaliser: 'Get back upfield and let them kick off again - there's still time!'

[Satchmo Distel]

Getting to the knockout stages would be the best achievement. We have played in two World Cup Finals with this 24 team set up and still managed to be one of the 8 teams eliminated in group stage.

It's a mental barrier that looms large over these players. Add in to the mix that in the group are 2 of the 4 World Cup semi final teams from 2018 and the task is even tougher.

I can see us doing a Scotland and ending up as the fifth best 3rd placed team after an agonising, last minute defeat to Croatia.

I think it's three 24 team tournaments and one with 32. 1990 was particularly odd because you won a game against a European side but still went out, which is hard to do under that format (your worst performance was against the expected whipping boys, Costa Rica). OTOH that Sweden side you beat looks like the worst we've seen at a major tournament, yet it would improve remarkably by 1992-94, spurred by co-hosting Euro 92.

[multipleman78]

I think it's three 24 team tournaments and one with 32. 1990 was particularly odd because you won a game against a European side but still went out, which is hard to do under that format (your worst performance was against the expected whipping boys, Costa Rica). OTOH that Sweden side you beat looks like the worst we've seen at a major tournament, yet it would improve remarkably by 1992-94, spurred by co-hosting Euro 92.

My apologies, I should clarify I was referring to the style of tournament from 86 and 90 where only 8 of the 24 teams were eliminated from the group stage and Scotland were in the 8 both times. I will be shocked if we don't manage to find a spot in the bottom 8 once again.

[Satchmo Distel]

The Czechs look beatable to me. Assuming England and Croatia are anywhere near their 2018 level, it all comes down to that opening game effectively; hope that two other groups have 3rd placed teams that have a worse record than 3 points and whatever GD Scotland can maintain.

[tee rex]

However, all that will be forgotten when we lift the trophy on July 11, lay waste to London, storm Westminster, burn down Buckingham Palace ...

You already did all that in 1977. Who needs trophies when you've brought Western civilisation to its knees? (according to all London media, and my mum watching telly)

Everything that's happened to Scotland since is The Revenge Of The Crossbar.