Penalty shootout - in the group stage?

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

There is the (albeit faint) chance of us seeing this new twist at the Euros. The first tiebreaker in the group stage between teams level on points is the result between two teams, but if they've drawn their last game, and their other results leave them level on overall goal difference and goals scored, they will have a penalty shootout. It would have happened in 1990 between Ireland and Holland, who at that tournament drew lots instead after drawing their last game 1-1.

[Flynnie]

I was ready to be horrified, but to be fair that is better than drawing lots.

[lambers]

How do they sort things if the two level sides aren't playing against each other in the final game? Do the teams have to station a reserve goalie at the other venue, just in case?

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

How do they sort things if the two level sides aren't playing against each other in the final game? Do the teams have to station a reserve goalie at the other venue, just in case?

I think it is just when they are playing each other in the final game? If not I think it's back to fair play, then (knowing UEFA) their pre-tournament coefficients.

[ad hoc]

Yes, if this is group E, for example, where the venues are the not-exactly-nearby Sevilla and St Petersburg, this will take while to set up I'd guess

[lambers]

I think I'd prefer the fair play and other coefficients, keeps the rules consistent no matter the fixture order.

[longeared]

There was an incidence in a previous Euros (2008 possibly) where a certain combination of results in the final round of games would have necessitated a penalty shoot out between two teams who were playing each other. Can't remember / be arsed to work out what exactly it all was.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

I think I'd prefer the fair play and other coefficients, keeps the rules consistent no matter the fixture order.

True, although two teams playing each other knowing they're going to be separated by how many cards they can get their opponents awarded raises all sorts of horrendous yet possibly comic possibilities.

[Jah Womble]

There was an incidence in a previous Euros (2008 possibly) where a certain combination of results in the final round of games would have necessitated a penalty shoot out between two teams who were playing each other. Can't remember / be arsed to work out what exactly it all was.

I can't remember the finer points either, but it involved Turkey and the Czech Republic, who played one another in their final group match: thankfully, the sacrilege of a shoot-out to decide qualification was avoided by the Turks turning around a two-goal deficit to win in the final minute. (From recollection, it was one of the most thrilling finales to a match in Euro history - perhaps bettered only by France/Portugal in 1984 and Spain/Yugoslavia in 2000.)

[jwdd27]

Both Turkey and the Czechs had beaten Switzerland by a single goal (2-1 and 1-0), and lost to Portugal by 2 goals (2-0 and 3-1), so both had goal difference of F2 A3. It's surprising it doesn't happen more often.
I'm guessing that if the scenario repeats itself this year they'd play out the draw, knowing that 4 points will get them through to the next stage, and hoping.to get 2nd on penalties.

[lambers]

True, although two teams playing each other knowing they're going to be separated by how many cards they can get their opponents awarded raises all sorts of horrendous yet possibly comic possibilities.

I like the thought of this, some play-actor tries to get a yellow card for the opposition, but gets one themselves to completely swing the tie...

[blameless]

I can't remember the finer points either, but it involved Turkey and the Czech Republic, who played one another in their final group match: thankfully, the sacrilege of a shoot-out to decide qualification was avoided by the Turks turning around a two-goal deficit to win in the final minute. (From recollection, it was one of the most thrilling finales to a match in Euro history - perhaps bettered only by France/Portugal in 1984 and Spain/Yugoslavia in 2000.)

It was indeed an absolute corker - Czechia were leading late on before an uncharacteristic error from Petr Cech let Turkey equalise. This was followed in added time by an outrageous curled shot from Nihat into the top corner to take Turkey through.

[Gangster Octopus]

Gosh, I actually remember that...

[Satchmo Distel]

I seem to recall that it was also pissing down.

[Jah Womble]

...as it was throughout much of the tournament. TV coverage of the Germany/Portugal q/f was partially blacked out through Europe, owing to an electrical storm.

Euro 2008 was a great competition, however. I'd place it between 1984 and 2000 in terms of exciting matches and last-minute goals.

[pebblethefish]

Weren't Ireland and Holland only separated by drawing lots at Italia 90? And if memory serves me right, had Egypt equalised against England then all four teams would have had identical records, which would have been fun.

(Yes, I know that was a WC rather than an EC, but still)

[Jah Womble]

The difference there is that we still had six groups (and therefore 'best-four' qualification), so neither would've been eliminated as a result. It was basically to determine who'd get W Germany in Round II.

The Dutch drew that particular short straw and were obviously spitting about it...

[jwdd27]

From my calculations* there is now no possibility of a penalty shootout in the final group games. A few teams might finish with identical records, but don't meet in the final game.

*Standing up and staring at the wallchart until Mrs D asked what the hell I was doing

[Jimski]

I was ready to be horrified, but to be fair that is better than drawing lots.

I quite like the idea of drawing lots tbh. Having a penalty shootout that isn't even necessarily after the game between the two sides would seem odd. And even odder if you only do it if they happen to be playing each other last. That has zero consistency.

You're equal in every way in a group, so let luck decide.

And sod "fair play".

[Guy Profumo]

There is the (albeit faint) chance of us seeing this new twist at the Euros. The first tiebreaker in the group stage between teams level on points is the result between two teams, but if they've drawn their last game, and their other results leave them level on overall goal difference and goals scored, they will have a penalty shootout. It would have happened in 1990 between Ireland and Holland*, who at that tournament drew lots instead after drawing their last game 1-1.

* <ding!>

[ursus arctos]

[jwdd27]

The sponsorship by 3, who didn't come into being until 2003, makes me doubt the authenticity of this garment.
The actual shirt looked like this

[ursus arctos]

Well played

The Oranje were still generally called Holland (in English) at the time

[Sporting]

The use in written Spanish - rarely when spoken - of Países Bajos has always intrigued me.

[ursus arctos]

Also in French, less so in Italian

Might the Spanish have taken root under the Habsburgs?