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Salford (Disgustingly Rich) Lads' Club - Conference National 2018/19

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  • Sean of the Shed
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post

    I'll ask my mate Tactical Genius for advice on a case for reparations.

    In all seriousness though, Peterborough and Wigan were in the league through the election system. The first few years of automatic promotion no one came up because the winning clubs didn't have a suitable set up in place.

    The financial doping is not separate at all. It has come in more and more as more and more opportunity is given to become a league club.

    Rushden were a vanity club that died and their stadium demolished for housing.

    In division 4 you are one shit season away from dropping out if the league and off the radar. Most of the ex league clubs that really plummeted were profoundly affected by losing league status.

    Sporting - my notable exceptions would be AFC Wimbledon, Accrington, Burton, Cheltenham, Wycombe

    A couple who have been worth having for a while: Yeovil, Boston, Barnet,

    Vanity projects/ unsustainable: Fleetwood, Morecambe, Forest Green, Rushden, Macclesfield, Scarborough

    Compared to what we've lost:
    Torquay
    York
    Halifax Town Nil
    Stockport
    Hereford
    Wrexham
    Chester
    Hartlepool
    Darlington
    Four of those nine are now phoenix clubs having been wound up and the rest were financial basket cases when they went down and some still are yet it's the promoted sides that are unsustainable?

    Leave a comment:


  • Via Newbury Park
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post

    A couple who have been worth having for a while: Yeovil, Boston, Barnet
    Ha ha. Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha.

    Fuck off.

    Dagenham & Redbridge got promoted with a team that was built in the Ď'right'í way with other teams cast-offs and players bought from the Conf South, Isthmian and lower. We had nine not-worth-it-apparently years in the league, living within our means, with maybe one comfortable mid-table season; all of the others were either scrapping to get in the play-offs or avoid relegation, and I loved every last minute of it. Sorry to have upset you with our being pretty good for a few years. We're a doped club now so we might do it again some time (although given our record with squandering money when we have it, probably not), I apologise in advance if some venerable club having a bad year (or, more likely if that list is anything to go by, getting screwed over by some terrible owner or other) loses their place to us.

    Re; Gloucester City and their FA Trophy run in 97, Dagenham's run to the final that season was the making of the subsequent years of success; that team and the players that Ted Hardy was able to add to it were the basis of the team that won the Isthmian and were then fucked over by Boston/Evans/the FA a few years after that. Probably too much of a stretch to say that if John Stimson hadn't walloped in a winner at the end of that replay that things might have been different for both clubs now, but it's an intriguing thought. Good to hear that they're getting their ground back.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snake Plissken
    replied
    I'm wondering if the first unsustainable vanity club of the Division Four promotion/relegation era was Colne Dynamoes. (Of which I was a season ticket holder.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Sits
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post

    I'll ask my mate Tactical Genius for advice on a case for reparations.

    In all seriousness though, Peterborough and Wigan were in the league through the election system. The first few years of automatic promotion no one came up because the winning clubs didn't have a suitable set up in place.

    The financial doping is not separate at all. It has come in more and more as more and more opportunity is given to become a league club.

    Rushden were a vanity club that died and their stadium demolished for housing.

    In division 4 you are one shit season away from dropping out if the league and off the radar. Most of the ex league clubs that really plummeted were profoundly affected by losing league status.

    Sporting - my notable exceptions would be AFC Wimbledon, Accrington, Burton, Cheltenham, Wycombe

    A couple who have been worth having for a while: Yeovil, Boston, Barnet,

    Vanity projects/ unsustainable: Fleetwood, Morecambe, Forest Green, Rushden, Macclesfield, Scarborough

    Compared to what we've lost:
    Torquay
    York
    Halifax Town Nil
    Stockport
    Hereford
    Wrexham
    Chester
    Hartlepool
    Darlington

    So i I must be really old to think of Workington, Gateshead and Southport among the "what we've lost"?

    Interestimg you mentioned the early automatic promotion era; was it Kettering who used to keep winning the proto-Conference and staying down as their ground wasn't up to it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Simon G
    replied
    Originally posted by Greenlander View Post

    Not trying to stir but did you run neck and neck with Gloucester City for years. What happened to bring Cheltenham out on top.
    Whilst Gloucester were our main rival in the Southern League days (I started going in 1994, so two years into our five year stay there following relegation from the Vauxhall Conference) there was always one or two teams better. In the two seasons I watched before we were promoted back to the Conference Hednesford and Rushden beat us to promotion. Even in the year we were promoted (and were truly neck and neck with Gloucester) we actually lost the title to Gresley Rovers who couldn't match the ground grading. It's the only time I'm aware of where the runners-up won promotion instead of a club being reprieved from the league above.

    Gloucester probably should have gone up that season, they were arguably the better team, but their run to the FA Trophy semi-finals, which they lost to Dagenham after a replay (following a draw after two legs), meant they played a stupid amount of games in the last few weeks and eventually ran out of steam. Once we went up their financial issues came to the fore and a few years later they were relegated and barely survived after the flood of their ground in 2001. They bounced back in 2004, but then were flooded again in 2007. How they achieved promotion in 2009 to the Conference North and have kept their place there despite being nomads since the floods. In good news for them, they finally achieved planning permission last week and hope to be back at Meadow Park in the new year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greenlander
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post


    Compared to what we've lost:
    Torquay
    How could I forget the Argyle second team!

    Leave a comment:


  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    Originally posted by tee rex View Post
    This is a very old link but it does give all the historical details of re-election votes, and as such is a pretty persuasive argument against that system. Patrick Thistle might want to start a petition to get compensation for Shrewsbury Town, they got shafted year in, year out!

    http://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/fo...statt_id=3506;


    Clubs like Peterborough, Wigan and Yeovil were knocking on the door for years, winning all they could on the pitch and with significant support off it. Automatic promotion really had to happen. The issue of financial doping and clubs merging/disappearing is really a separate problem - after all, if we still had re-election that wouldn't have stopped MK Dons being created.
    I'll ask my mate Tactical Genius for advice on a case for reparations.

    In all seriousness though, Peterborough and Wigan were in the league through the election system. The first few years of automatic promotion no one came up because the winning clubs didn't have a suitable set up in place.

    The financial doping is not separate at all. It has come in more and more as more and more opportunity is given to become a league club.

    Rushden were a vanity club that died and their stadium demolished for housing.

    In division 4 you are one shit season away from dropping out if the league and off the radar. Most of the ex league clubs that really plummeted were profoundly affected by losing league status.

    Sporting - my notable exceptions would be AFC Wimbledon, Accrington, Burton, Cheltenham, Wycombe

    A couple who have been worth having for a while: Yeovil, Boston, Barnet,

    Vanity projects/ unsustainable: Fleetwood, Morecambe, Forest Green, Rushden, Macclesfield, Scarborough

    Compared to what we've lost:
    Torquay
    York
    Halifax Town Nil
    Stockport
    Hereford
    Wrexham
    Chester
    Hartlepool
    Darlington

    Leave a comment:


  • Sporting
    replied
    Somewhere such as FC United's ground would have been ideal.

    Leave a comment:


  • slackster
    replied
    Itís not going to be easy to pick which of these vanity projects to root for in the final, but being a supporter of a team thatís changed name, colours & badge ourselves a few times, plus being reliant on a significant current subsidy from our own director-investors, itís probably best if I donít throw too many stones from our glasshouse.

    Be interesting to see how empty Wembley is for this one. Thereís times when it makes no sense at all to me to use the National Stadium, and this is one of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guy Profumo
    replied
    Originally posted by Greenlander View Post
    I'd agree with TrL with the addition of Cheltenham.

    Darlington, Hartlepool and Chesterfield should be on the return list too.
    Not based on any concept of a meritocracy they shouldn't.

    Leave a comment:


  • tee rex
    replied
    This is a very old link but it does give all the historical details of re-election votes, and as such is a pretty persuasive argument against that system. Patrick Thistle might want to start a petition to get compensation for Shrewsbury Town, they got shafted year in, year out!

    http://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/fo...statt_id=3506;


    Clubs like Peterborough, Wigan and Yeovil were knocking on the door for years, winning all they could on the pitch and with significant support off it. Automatic promotion really had to happen. The issue of financial doping and clubs merging/disappearing is really a separate problem - after all, if we still had re-election that wouldn't have stopped MK Dons being created.

    Leave a comment:


  • JM Footzee
    replied
    Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
    Had to laugh at the BBC Sport website summary - "Eastleigh win 0-0 on penalties" - are there no subeditors at the Beeb any more?
    It's Opta data, it'll have cropped up anywhere that uses it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greenlander
    replied
    Originally posted by Simon G View Post
    I think what helps with us (Cheltenham) is that we replaced a team who didn't have a great League history in Scarborough. Had we replaced a Notts County or a Wrexham then we'd be seen as replacing one of the traditional Football League teams.

    I'm surprised Diablo Rouge mentioned us though, we're usually the ones that never get a mention (hence my irrational dislike for Yeovil).
    Not trying to stir but did you run neck and neck with Gloucester City for years. What happened to bring Cheltenham out on top.

    Leave a comment:


  • Simon G
    replied
    I think what helps with us (Cheltenham) is that we replaced a team who didn't have a great League history in Scarborough. Had we replaced a Notts County or a Wrexham then we'd be seen as replacing one of the traditional Football League teams.

    I'm surprised Diablo Rouge mentioned us though, we're usually the ones that never get a mention (hence my irrational dislike for Yeovil).

    Regarding Salford, what grates as much as the doping is the media obsession with them. Oliver Holt for example tweeting earlier:

    "Not everyone agrees but I think Salford City's rise is a great story. Good to see a club revived and flourishing."

    The responses asking how they were revived when they hadn't dropped anywhere before the takeover seem to have been ignored. It's not a great story at all - it's the same story as Rushden, Fleetwood, Forest Green Rovers and others who maybe haven't been as successful just yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greenlander
    replied
    I'd agree with TrL with the addition of Cheltenham.

    Darlington, Hartlepool and Chesterfield should be on the return list too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Diable Rouge
    replied
    Cheltenham wouldn't have seemed an obvious league club, but appear to have thrived over the last 20 seasons. Also, the response to automatic relegation seems to depend on internal management - well organised clubs like Tranmere, Lincoln and Shrewsbury, among others, have bounced back after a few seasons at worst, whereas the teams that have plummeted down the divisions have been largely failed by negligent and incompetent owners.

    Leave a comment:


  • Third rate Leszno
    replied
    For me, Wycombe, Burton Albion - and until this week, Yeovil.

    AFC Wimbledon are obviously a great addition, but they should've been a league club all along.

    Morecambe, Stevenage, Accrington are all ok in their own way, but not really a replacement for say, Stockport, York or Wrexham.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sporting
    replied
    Who are the notable exceptions?

    Leave a comment:


  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    With a couple of notable exceptions I still feel the football league has lost a lot more than its gained from the automatic promotion / relegation era. It's been bad enough for a lot of the former non league clubs who have found league football a poisoned chalice. It's a matter of time before the doped clubs collapse.

    Leave a comment:


  • 3 Colours Red
    replied
    Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
    Christ, I didn't realise AFC Fylde hosed a Brexit Party rally at their ground this weekend.
    Another good reason why they can frankly fuck off.
    And for the benefit of Sporting, Fylde are another hideous vanity project who have been presumptuous enough to have 2022 on the back of their shirts as that's the date they targeted to be in the Football League and most of the rest of us want them to choke on their own hubris. That and y'know, the whole Brexiteer thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Christ, I didn't realise AFC Fylde hosed a Brexit Party rally at their ground this weekend.

    Leave a comment:


  • Walt Flanagans Dog
    replied
    Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
    Newcastle, Gateshead and Ashington were all in the Football League during the Twenties.
    Pedantry perhaps, but "Gateshead" were South Shields in the 1920s, they moved to the 'heed in 1930. Durham City were also in for most of the 1920s (Carlisle replaced them).

    Leave a comment:


  • Third rate Leszno
    replied
    Salford were a perfectly ordinary, inoffensive non league club until 2014. They played in tangerine and had a 'normal' non league badge with a lion and their nickname of The Ammies on it.

    Post-2014 they changed their colours and introduced a new badge, still featuring a Lion but in a more modern style, reflecting the new colours and minus the nickname.

    Not exactly fake in my book, but more than just another financially doped non league club like many of those who've gone before.

    Edit: or what Ray said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Originally posted by Sporting View Post

    Excellent answer, cheers. Obviously history and grassroots support is vital but I'm still asking if sudden and important investment makes you fake, or just lucky? And if your own particular club were to receive such an offer....
    Completely changing your colours & badge and much of the character & identity of the club as part of being financially doped doesn't help either.

    Whatever Salford were pre cash influx and rebranding, they're now essentially a Man United theme park. That's why they're a fake club and pretty much all of non-league thinks so.

    Leave a comment:


  • E10 Rifle
    replied
    Wrexham have endured a fuck of a lot off the pitch too (as have lots of clubs in the fifth tier), which is more what I was alluding to really.

    Leave a comment:

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