Salford (Disgustingly Rich) Lads' Club - Conference National 2018/19

[Diable Rouge]

Before the Class of 92 input, Salford had average attendances of roughly 100, indeed one of the poorest in the Northern Premier League, so the question of "Where were you, etc" certainly applies .

[Sporting]

Wrexham have averaged around 5,000 this season, which is bloody impressive given that they've been down at this level for about a decade now and have had plenty to endure. Their fans will know about going through the mill and sticking with it in a way that Salford's generally do not.

Thanks. But does being down in the basement for so long give you more right to go up again? is it not about quality on the pitch? (And yes, as a fan of a club more often than I would wish below the top flight, I know what suffering/patience is).

[Diable Rouge]

Thanks. But does being down in the basement for so long give you more right to go up again? is it not about quality on the pitch? (And yes, as a fan of a club more often than I would wish below the top flight, I know what suffering/patience is).

Certainly not on historical grounds, but there are plenty of Conference clubs who've never played in the Football League, but have a much richer history and grassroots support, such as Sutton, Dover and Bromley. Salford will have earned promotion on merit of it happens, but it would have been impossible without the millions of Peter Lim and the United alumni.

[Sporting]

Certainly not on historical grounds, but there are plenty of Conference clubs who've never played in the Football League, but have a much richer history and grassroots support, such as Sutton, Dover and Bromley. Salford will have earned promotion on merit of it happens, but it would have been impossible without the millions of Peter Lim and the United alumni.

Excellent answer, cheers. Obviously history and grassroots support is vital but I'm still asking if sudden and important investment makes you fake, or just lucky? And if your own particular club were to receive such an offer....

[E10 Rifle]

Wrexham have endured a fuck of a lot off the pitch too (as have lots of clubs in the fifth tier), which is more what I was alluding to really.

[Ray de Galles]

Excellent answer, cheers. Obviously history and grassroots support is vital but I'm still asking if sudden and important investment makes you fake, or just lucky? And if your own particular club were to receive such an offer....

Completely changing your colours & badge and much of the character & identity of the club as part of being financially doped doesn't help either.

Whatever Salford were pre cash influx and rebranding, they're now essentially a Man United theme park. That's why they're a fake club and pretty much all of non-league thinks so.

[Third rate Leszno]

Salford were a perfectly ordinary, inoffensive non league club until 2014. They played in tangerine and had a 'normal' non league badge with a lion and their nickname of The Ammies on it.

Post-2014 they changed their colours and introduced a new badge, still featuring a Lion but in a more modern style, reflecting the new colours and minus the nickname.

Not exactly fake in my book, but more than just another financially doped non league club like many of those who've gone before.

Edit: or what Ray said.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

Newcastle, Gateshead and Ashington were all in the Football League during the Twenties.

Pedantry perhaps, but "Gateshead" were South Shields in the 1920s, they moved to the 'heed in 1930. Durham City were also in for most of the 1920s (Carlisle replaced them).

[Ray de Galles]

Christ, I didn't realise AFC Fylde hosed a Brexit Party rally at their ground this weekend.

[3 Colours Red]

Christ, I didn't realise AFC Fylde hosed a Brexit Party rally at their ground this weekend.

Another good reason why they can frankly fuck off.
And for the benefit of Sporting, Fylde are another hideous vanity project who have been presumptuous enough to have 2022 on the back of their shirts as that's the date they targeted to be in the Football League and most of the rest of us want them to choke on their own hubris. That and y'know, the whole Brexiteer thing.

[Patrick Thistle]

With a couple of notable exceptions I still feel the football league has lost a lot more than its gained from the automatic promotion / relegation era. It's been bad enough for a lot of the former non league clubs who have found league football a poisoned chalice. It's a matter of time before the doped clubs collapse.

[Sporting]

Who are the notable exceptions?

[Third rate Leszno]

For me, Wycombe, Burton Albion - and until this week, Yeovil.

AFC Wimbledon are obviously a great addition, but they should've been a league club all along.

Morecambe, Stevenage, Accrington are all ok in their own way, but not really a replacement for say, Stockport, York or Wrexham.

[Diable Rouge]

Cheltenham wouldn't have seemed an obvious league club, but appear to have thrived over the last 20 seasons. Also, the response to automatic relegation seems to depend on internal management - well organised clubs like Tranmere, Lincoln and Shrewsbury, among others, have bounced back after a few seasons at worst, whereas the teams that have plummeted down the divisions have been largely failed by negligent and incompetent owners.

[Greenlander]

I'd agree with TrL with the addition of Cheltenham.

Darlington, Hartlepool and Chesterfield should be on the return list too.

[Simon G]

I think what helps with us (Cheltenham) is that we replaced a team who didn't have a great League history in Scarborough. Had we replaced a Notts County or a Wrexham then we'd be seen as replacing one of the traditional Football League teams.

I'm surprised Diablo Rouge mentioned us though, we're usually the ones that never get a mention (hence my irrational dislike for Yeovil).

Regarding Salford, what grates as much as the doping is the media obsession with them. Oliver Holt for example tweeting earlier:

"Not everyone agrees but I think Salford City's rise is a great story. Good to see a club revived and flourishing."

The responses asking how they were revived when they hadn't dropped anywhere before the takeover seem to have been ignored. It's not a great story at all - it's the same story as Rushden, Fleetwood, Forest Green Rovers and others who maybe haven't been as successful just yet.

[Greenlander]

I think what helps with us (Cheltenham) is that we replaced a team who didn't have a great League history in Scarborough. Had we replaced a Notts County or a Wrexham then we'd be seen as replacing one of the traditional Football League teams.

I'm surprised Diablo Rouge mentioned us though, we're usually the ones that never get a mention (hence my irrational dislike for Yeovil).

Not trying to stir but did you run neck and neck with Gloucester City for years. What happened to bring Cheltenham out on top.

[JM Footzee]

Had to laugh at the BBC Sport website summary - "Eastleigh win 0-0 on penalties" - are there no subeditors at the Beeb any more?

It's Opta data, it'll have cropped up anywhere that uses it.

[tee rex]

This is a very old link but it does give all the historical details of re-election votes, and as such is a pretty persuasive argument against that system. Patrick Thistle might want to start a petition to get compensation for Shrewsbury Town, they got shafted year in, year out!

http://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/fo...statt_id=3506;


Clubs like Peterborough, Wigan and Yeovil were knocking on the door for years, winning all they could on the pitch and with significant support off it. Automatic promotion really had to happen. The issue of financial doping and clubs merging/disappearing is really a separate problem - after all, if we still had re-election that wouldn't have stopped MK Dons being created.

[Guy Profumo]

I'd agree with TrL with the addition of Cheltenham.

Darlington, Hartlepool and Chesterfield should be on the return list too.

Not based on any concept of a meritocracy they shouldn't.

[slackster]

It’s not going to be easy to pick which of these vanity projects to root for in the final, but being a supporter of a team that’s changed name, colours & badge ourselves a few times, plus being reliant on a significant current subsidy from our own director-investors, it’s probably best if I don’t throw too many stones from our glasshouse.

Be interesting to see how empty Wembley is for this one. There’s times when it makes no sense at all to me to use the National Stadium, and this is one of them.

[Sporting]

Somewhere such as FC United's ground would have been ideal.

[Patrick Thistle]

This is a very old link but it does give all the historical details of re-election votes, and as such is a pretty persuasive argument against that system. Patrick Thistle might want to start a petition to get compensation for Shrewsbury Town, they got shafted year in, year out!

http://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/fo...statt_id=3506;


Clubs like Peterborough, Wigan and Yeovil were knocking on the door for years, winning all they could on the pitch and with significant support off it. Automatic promotion really had to happen. The issue of financial doping and clubs merging/disappearing is really a separate problem - after all, if we still had re-election that wouldn't have stopped MK Dons being created.

I'll ask my mate Tactical Genius for advice on a case for reparations.

In all seriousness though, Peterborough and Wigan were in the league through the election system. The first few years of automatic promotion no one came up because the winning clubs didn't have a suitable set up in place.

The financial doping is not separate at all. It has come in more and more as more and more opportunity is given to become a league club.

Rushden were a vanity club that died and their stadium demolished for housing.

In division 4 you are one shit season away from dropping out if the league and off the radar. Most of the ex league clubs that really plummeted were profoundly affected by losing league status.

Sporting - my notable exceptions would be AFC Wimbledon, Accrington, Burton, Cheltenham, Wycombe

A couple who have been worth having for a while: Yeovil, Boston, Barnet,

Vanity projects/ unsustainable: Fleetwood, Morecambe, Forest Green, Rushden, Macclesfield, Scarborough

Compared to what we've lost:
Torquay
York
Halifax Town Nil
Stockport
Hereford
Wrexham
Chester
Hartlepool
Darlington

[Greenlander]

Compared to what we've lost:
Torquay

How could I forget the Argyle second team!

[Simon G]

Not trying to stir but did you run neck and neck with Gloucester City for years. What happened to bring Cheltenham out on top.

Whilst Gloucester were our main rival in the Southern League days (I started going in 1994, so two years into our five year stay there following relegation from the Vauxhall Conference) there was always one or two teams better. In the two seasons I watched before we were promoted back to the Conference Hednesford and Rushden beat us to promotion. Even in the year we were promoted (and were truly neck and neck with Gloucester) we actually lost the title to Gresley Rovers who couldn't match the ground grading. It's the only time I'm aware of where the runners-up won promotion instead of a club being reprieved from the league above.

Gloucester probably should have gone up that season, they were arguably the better team, but their run to the FA Trophy semi-finals, which they lost to Dagenham after a replay (following a draw after two legs), meant they played a stupid amount of games in the last few weeks and eventually ran out of steam. Once we went up their financial issues came to the fore and a few years later they were relegated and barely survived after the flood of their ground in 2001. They bounced back in 2004, but then were flooded again in 2007. How they achieved promotion in 2009 to the Conference North and have kept their place there despite being nomads since the floods. In good news for them, they finally achieved planning permission last week and hope to be back at Meadow Park in the new year.