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Leicester than zero? - Premier League 2018/19

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    Originally posted by hobbes View Post
    I take issue with the idea that the evil of being a team financially doped in ever more dishonest and FFP dodging ways for a decade by the Crown Prince of a mysogynistic and serial human rights abusing oil nation is equal in some way to the evil of a team that has a subset of fans who are a bit smug.
    I mean, I know football us about irrational biases, but that seems a step far, even to me,
    And if that was the reason, you would have a point. However, the massive problem with Liverpool and their co-conspirators Manchester United is they are the principle architects and significant unabashed beneficiaries of the deliberately constructed structural inequalities that bedevil Football today. The same structural inequalities that put a club like Manchester City on the radar of the Qataris, rather than running an Americas Cup team or owning a massive stables or whatever they would have been up to in the 1970s. Liverpool's rap sheet is being part of late 80s Big Five who were the driving forces for the creation of the Premier League and the vast hording of wealth that creates (financial doping is always much more successful if you can get to write the rules of the game), and then as that went so swimmingly did the same again as part of the G-14 with the terribly abused European Cup.

    The vast majority of the serious problems with modern Football have their root causes in those two pieces of cartel-like behaviour. Liverpool must take their share of the blame for it, and all it's consequences. Their behaviour on this would draw admiring nods from the most rapacious Victorian Mill Owners. And as such, frankly, fuck 'em.
    Last edited by Janik; 12-05-2019, 18:34.

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      Liverpool had a lot of last-minute winners this year - Everton, Spurs and Palace even went as far as throwing them in their own net for us. That, with City generously refusing to score a penalty against us at Anfield, and this year really could have ended up with City on 100 points again and Liverpool on around 88. Which still would have been a fantastic season for Liverpool, but probably and in honesty a more realistic reflection of the way City have dominated almost every game they've played, while we scrapped like dogs in a lot of them.

      Having said that, I think Liverpool will improve further next year - and by improve I mean get to a similar points total in a more comfortable manner. Can City keep this up for a third year running? We find out I guess.

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        Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
        It's going to be funny if Man City and Liverpool both end up winning the trophy that the other one really wanted.
        That will be quite funny.

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          And if that was the reason, you would have a point. However, the massive problem with Liverpool and their co-conspirators Manchester United is they are the principle architects and significant unabashed beneficiaries of the deliberately constructed structural inequalities that bedevil Football today. The same structural inequalities that put a club like Manchester City on the radar of the Qataris, rather than running an Americas Cup team or owning a massive stables or whatever they would have been up to in the 1970s.

          But it can't be explained by money. Sugar Daddies don't buy football clubs for the money. They do it for the soft power. This has always been the case for time immemorial. It's been the basis for Italian football since the war. I mean I challenge you to come up with a financial reason for Qatar buying PSG. The reason that you can have sugar daddy football clubs is because until very recently there was no rules on anyone coming in and spending an absolute fortune on a team. The imposition of a break even condition on football clubs at some point in the distant past would have lead to a different economic model for football, but the way that would have worked out is that someone seeking to launder their reputation through the miracle of football, would simply have had to buy a successful club, rather than build one out of huge piles of money.

          The thing that attracts this sort of supervillain to football is that it's really popular. The money and the structural inequalities are what attracts the Glazers, FSG's. Kroenkes, and the sort of people who Own american sports teams. It's two very different types of problems. The only way to really prevent either type of owners is to have fan owned clubs, but that doesn't prevent the creation of structural inequalities in football. Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich are all fan owned and make the glazers look like Francis of Assisi when it comes to concern for the other clubs in their league. It's almost like everyone involved in professional football is some sort of toxic vampire

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            Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
            it can't be explained by money. Sugar Daddies don't buy football clubs for the money. They do it for the soft power.
            See also Americas Cup teams and Racehorses. The Premier League and the Champions League are 'The Show' in the way Division 1 and the European Cup were not. As wealth accumulates, so interest and media focus also does, and therefore even more wealth comes. It's your typical feedback deal that those who control the game always make for themselves. Getting that sort of thing going was always the plan, that was why the cartel set themselves up to try and usurp the FA and UEFA from running these competitions. An aim they have mostly achieved. And, of course, such a business model will attract your Abramovich's and Mansour's, it's something that is very familiar and comfortable for them. They are right at home.

            The saying know a man by the company he keeps. Well, in the G-14 Liverpool and Manchester United were working in tandem with Florentino Perez, Gianni Agnelli, Robert Louis-Dreyfus, Silivo Berlusconi et al. They have never seemed particularly (meaning: at all) apologetic about having done so, either.

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              Sugar daddies for the most part do buy football clubs for money. Not your Qatars and your UAEs but people who buy championship clubs for example in the hope of getting to the Premier league and cashing in on the TV money. And even people like the Glazers. They're taking out far more than they put in. It's not about soft power it's about money. Pure and simple

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                Originally posted by hobbes View Post
                Congratulations to the Man City fans on here. Enjoy tonight celebrating.
                Are there any? I can't think of one.

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                  Tony C. Not sure there are many more, though.

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                    Wasn't there a Man. City fan called Smallcaps who then changed his nom de plume?

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                      Mrs Thistle's dislike for Liverpool is increasingly becoming worrisome. Today she was cackling with glee when I told her Liverpool had finished second with the highest runners up points total ever accumulated in any top European league* and then referred to them as "Europe's top losers!"

                      I wasn't sure how to respond to her delight.

                      * source = my brother; so this might not be reliable.

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                        Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                        Sugar daddies for the most part do buy football clubs for money. Not your Qatars and your UAEs but people who buy championship clubs for example in the hope of getting to the Premier league and cashing in on the TV money. And even people like the Glazers. They're taking out far more than they put in. It's not about soft power it's about money. Pure and simple
                        You're conflating two different groups of people with very different motivations here. The only thing that they have in common is that they are taking advantage of the laxity of the break even rules. Also, how often does that work? How many times has this successfully been pulled off?

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                          Streamed our game at the cottage. Great stress free afternoon which took us to 13th with 45 points. Finished 10th last season with 44 points. Either way there are limited parameters against which Benitez can operate.

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                            Some random thoughts on todays game at Turf.

                            Guendeozi left yelling at the ref after being knocked to the ground and losing the ball. Heaton gives away possession with a ppor clearance, the ball is passed out wide and he gets a yellow for handling outside the box. Aubameyang hits the crossbar. Guendoeozi left yelling at the ref after being knocked to the gound and losing the ball again. A cross from McNeil is headed wide by Barnes with Leno nowhere.

                            And that was the first five minutes.

                            The next twenty five minutes didn't really let up - Arsenal looked threatening in spells, but the clearest chances fell to Burnley. Wood outmuscled a defender to run clear and beat Leno, only to strike the post. In between times, the Clarets midfield took their turns to take the ball and leave Guendouzi, Elneny and Iwobi on the floor without the ref blowing the whistle. I mean, they weren't diving (well, not much) but to call them lightweight would be an insult to helium balloons. It was hilarious seeing Guendouzi trying to play the tough midfield general and lose out to Ashley Westwood and Dwight McNeil. Burnley should have had a penalty when Leno caught the ball and sprinted out of his goal, bulldozing over an innocent (for once) Ashley Barnes. Somehow the free kick ended up going the visitors way.

                            Second half, a loose pass let Aubameyang spring clear and he doesn't miss those. Some of the Arsenal players celebrated before, bizarrely, Guendouzi decided to race forward past Hendrick, flicking the v's and yelling whatever the Italian is for "stitch that you effin cee". He didn't seem to realise that Mike Dean was standing next to him. Yellow card. The travelling support finally made itself know having looked up the dictionary definition of "Sing when you're winning".

                            A short while later a nice cross from the left was acrobatically finished by Aubameyang for 2-0. Oh well. Except a minute or so after that, Clarets equalised through Barnes, who ran past Guendouzi yelling whatever the Somerset is for "stitch that you effing cee". Mike Dean was nowhere near the incident, so no card and the Arsenal player learning if you come at the king, you'd better not miss. The travelling supporters quickly shut the fuck up again.

                            Clarets got loose at the back leading to a procession of missed Arsenal chances. The visitors then suffered an attack of the cramps, a desperate need to take on water and a mysterious inability to quickly take goal kicks. The home crowd started singing "anti-football". Crouch came on for a cameo and caused havoc. Cork booked for going through the back of Guendouzi - a clear case of "oh for effs sake, eff off you effing cee". Elneny, sensing that the referee might be more amenable, sensed Westwood near him and fell over when tackled. The Clarets POTY turned away with the ball and was laughing along with the crowd while Elneny got his funk on.

                            Burnley almost equalised when Tarkowski got in the way of Crouchs goalbound shot. Arsenal finally got a third with the last kick of the game. It didn't matter. It was just funny to see a bunch of dislikable fancy dans (Aubameyang apart) looking bewildered that someone should have the sheer effrontery to try to take the ball away from them. Guendouzi is just a bad David Luiz in every respect, including haircut.

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                              Id be surprised if Guendouzi was yelling in Italian - he grew up in the suburbs of Paris.

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                                Why would a Frenchman from suburban Paris who has played professionally in Brittany and England curse Hendrick in Italian?

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                                  Because that's what I wrote, and therefore it is true.

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                                    The idea that Steve Bould is teaching the dark arts in the original does have a certain appeal.

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                                      Originally posted by 3 Colours Red View Post

                                      Are there any? I can't think of one.
                                      Second favourite UK team for me after Leeds. My uncle played for Manchester City from the mid-fifties to the mid-sixties, captaining the side near the end of his career. He is the last surviving member of the 1956 "Trautmann final" FA Cup winning team and, all being well, will be introduced on the pitch at Wembley before the match next Saturday. He left City to become player manager of Doncaster, then moved on to Workington, Cambridge United (taking them into the league in 1970), Chelmsford City and Cambridge City. His name is Bill Leivers. And I am very proud of him. And I was punching the air this afternoon.

                                      If it's Leeds v City, though, there's no question for me that Leeds wins that. I prove this to myself on a weekly basis. It has been nice these last few years, though, to have a team to root for passionately in the Prem, given the prolonged absence of my childhood favourites. I was at the Wigan final a few years ago (oh dear) and the Community Shield last August (yay!).

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                                        Christ almighty this brings me back to 2012 when City winning the Premier league was compared to the Nazis invading the Soviet Union.

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                                          My God, that touch from David Silva for City's equaliser.

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                                            See also Americas Cup teams and Racehorses. The Premier League and the Champions League are 'The Show' in the way Division 1 and the European Cup were not. As wealth accumulates, so interest and media focus also does, and therefore even more wealth comes. It's your typical feedback deal that those who control the game always make for themselves. Getting that sort of thing going was always the plan, that was why the cartel set themselves up to try and usurp the FA and UEFA from running these competitions. An aim they have mostly achieved. And, of course, such a business model will attract your Abramovich's and Mansour's, it's something that is very familiar and comfortable for them. They are right at home

                                            I'm not convinced by this. Football in the 1980's was what it was, in terms of public appeal and standing, because it was so badly run that it was killing people in large numbers.You're coming perilously close to making the argument that football is only meaningfully popular because of the creation of the Premier league. This sort of thing reminds me of the type of argument you hear in Ireland where some people blame low Euro Interest rates for our property bubble, attributing the blame for something to one disliked thing, when in actuality the problem stems from A general refusal to regulate at all, and wider tendencies in society and the economy (i.e. we did literally everything we could to inflate the bubble)
                                            Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 13-05-2019, 09:22.

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                                              The last time either team dropped points was the Merseyside Derby on March 3. I can't recall two sides ever keeping up such a standard in a title run-in, usually there are a few tense draws and shock defeats.

                                              Liverpool would have won the title by a point under 2 points for a win

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                                                Arsenal would have finished 4th instead of Spurs under 2 points for a win, which is probably a good illustration of why 3 is better.

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                                                  Ah yes, that was only Spurs's second draw in the Premier League. But 13 defeats - phew!

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                                                    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                                    Liverpool had finished second with the highest runners up points total ever accumulated in any top European league*

                                                    * source = my brother; so this might not be reliable.
                                                    You should trust your brother a little more. Real Madrid's 96 in 2009-10 was the previous mark for a "top five" league.

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