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2018 Copa Libertadores

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    2018 Copa Libertadores

    Only a few more days until the first phase begins. In Olimpia and Universitario we have two traditionally dominant sides (Olimpia in domestic and international competitions and Universitario in domestic competitions). Both crashed and burned during the early phases last year, with Universitario blowing a 3 (?) goal advantage. And Olimpia were one of the multiple former Libertadores champs beaten by Botafogo in 2017. It seems that Olimpia might be due for their recurring once per decade championshp, but I've probably said that early in these the threads for the past few seasons.

    Of course, we can't talk about CONMEBOL competitions without calling into question CONMBEOL (il)logic. In this instance, they have scheduled 3 games on Monday night and 3 on Friday. I get that this move avoids dragging out the first phase, but leagues are not happening yet other than the State Championships in Brazil. I would think that CONMEBOL could spread out the games to draw more attention to each game, so maybe 2 on Monday and 1 on Tuesday and then 1 on Friday and 2 on Saturday or something like that. Anyway, I'm happy that Fox in the US should be showing two of the games live and the third on one-day delay. On the plus side, last year they seemed to jumble up Libertadores and Sudamericana fairly early in terms of schedule and this year we've got a few rounds of Libertadores before the Sudamericana starts.

    I wouldn't dare pick a favorite at this point, but I would think that the quick turnaround given the new format means that some of the favorites last season, such as Palmeiras and River, would likely be picked again as early favorites.

    #2
    Second legs are on tomorrow (Friday night). I expect Olimpia and Oriente Petrolero to be in good shape. The Tachira-Macara tie seems to be up in the air. Surprisingly the match between these two was probably the most exciting on Monday night.

    There is a quick turnaround with the second round starting next week.

    Comment


      #3
      I think we have our tie of the round.

      The first leg between Oriente Petrolero and Universitário was notable for a novel goal celebration by Maxi Fleitas after giving Oriente a 2-0 lead. From 9:45 here - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NrDJnIB6GSE

      Universitário soon turned it round in the second leg taking a 3-0 lead and looking comfortable with two Oriente players sent off. But in a match marked by poor goalkeeping Universitário’s Raul Fernandez decided to come all the way to the edge of his area to catch a high ball. He didn’t make it and the away goal gave Oriente’s 9 men an unlikely victory.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E2LUSy2zwjw

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        #4
        Considering the election chaos behind the scenes and the fact that Vasco are as broke as usual, their 4-0 win at Universidad de Concepcion came as a surprise. They actually played some decent football but I suspect that was a reflection of how poor their opponents were. Certainly, the Chileans’ 40 year old keeper made a couple of awful howlers.

        An early start to the Libertadores is just what Chapecoense didn’t need as they have had a large turnover of players. Predictably, they went down 1-0 at home to Nacional and face an uphill task in the away leg.

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          #5
          You are underplaying the magic of Yago Pikachu (scorer of their third).

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            #6
            Ah yes Pikachu. Now how did he not appear on that Brazilian names thread?

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              #7
              He did https://www.onetouchfootball.com/sho...an-names/page2

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                #8
                So he did!

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                  #9
                  An interesting development today. Chapecoense have asked Conmebol to expel Nacional from the competition after a number of their supporters made gestures imitating a crashing aeroplane.

                  I can’t see it succeeding but it’s worth noting that Chapecoense were excluded from the competition last year for fielding an ineligible player. The beneficiaries who qualified for the knockout stages? Nacional.

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                    #10
                    Watched the first leg of the Recopa last night, a 1-1 draw between Independiente and Grêmio. After Gigliotti was sent off with the aid of the video referee for elbowing Kanneman, I think Independiente will be the happier with the result as they not only equalised with 10 men but prevented Grêmio from taking a lead back to Porto Alegre. Despite using the extra man for some nice build-up play, Grêmio lacked a cutting edge with the exception of Luan who took his goal really well.

                    In the Libertadores, it was the battle between the explorer and the aviator. Vasco continued their unlikely goal-scoring exploits, thrashing Jorge Wilstermann 4-0. For those of us who like this sort of thing, at 2-0 their goals had been scored by a combination of the augmentative and the diminutive, Paulão and Paulinho.

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                      #11
                      Oh my goodness. Wilstermann 3 up in 15 minutes.

                      Should I stay up for this? The clocks have gone back an hour so it’s only just started and I need some sleep.

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                        #12
                        Still 0-0 between Grêmio and Independiente in the second leg of the Recopa.

                        No, I’ve got to get some sleep. I’ll have to catch up tomorrow.

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                          #13
                          Sorry for not getting involved sooner, cantagalo, I've had a busy few weeks. Anyway, tonight you missed quite a bunch of endings!

                          Nacional got a 95th minute winner to take the match 1-0 and the tie 3-2 against Banfield. Wilstermann managed their 4-0 win over Vasco da Gama, only to lose the shootout (I didn't see the game as I was watching the two Argentine sides, but I caught the shootout and it was frankly awful), and Grêmio took the Recopa 5-4 on penalties after a 0-0 draw.

                          Tomorrow Paraguayan side Guaraní host Colombia's Atlético Junior, with the visitors leading 1-0 from the first leg. And next week, the group stage begins!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Just as well I decided to go to bed - as you said, I’d have been awake a long time seeing how these games turned out.

                            I’ve caught up on some of the highlights. Jorge Wilstermann got their fourth in the second half (4 goal, 4 headers!) and Vasco just about hung on, winning it thanks to three penalty saves by Martin Silva. If Wilstermann had won it, it would have been the biggest first leg deficit overcome in Libertadores history.

                            Grêmio benefitted from another VAR red card. I’ve seen it several times but I still can’t tell whether Amorebieta deliberately raked his studs down Luan’s chest. Over the two legs, Independiente played with 10 men for a total of 140 minutes.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I have been behind the past two weeks because of Fox's choice to repeat UEFA CL games and CONMEBOL's belief that scheduling three competitions at the same time makes perfect marketing sense. The first leg of the Recopa was a thriller; I would rank the first 20+ minutes as some of the most exciting in the past year. But the second leg was far more measured.

                              Of the teams I try to follow in South America, Nacional seems to have the best chance to get out of the group. I don't know how Estudiantes is doing these days, but Santos hasn't looked particularly strong in the Paulista games I have watched. I'm a week behind on this competition although I'll jump ahead to watch the Palmerias-Corinthians (or vice versa) match on Monday when it repeats here--too many other things recording on the DVR today. But Palmeiras and Corinthians certainly look much better than Santos. The tables might tell a different story, although last I checked Palmeiras was undefeated and they have looked very good in the games I have seen. Anyway, Santa Fe are screwed landing in a group with Emelc, Flamengo, and River. And U de Chile are in a tight group with Cruzeiro, Racing, and Vasco. Vasco's meltdown at Wilstermann has me a little less worried about them. Of course, the names on the shirts don't guarantee victories and I haven't seen either Racing or Cruzeiro since last season.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                The groups are underway. On Tuesday, Racing were business at the front, party at the back, beating Cruzeiro 4-2 in Avellaneda with 20-year-old centre forward Lautaro Martínez claiming a hat trick before telling the television cameras he was disappointed in his performance because he also missed some easy chances (most notably when his team were 1-0 up, moments before Cruzeiro went up the other end and equalised). Proper elite mentality, that, and it's an indicator of why I reckon he'll be one of the top handful of centre forwards on the planet in five years' time. Grêmio started their defence shakily: they took all game to score away to Defensor Sporting, and when they did they promptly conceded right away by not bothering to mark at a corner.

                                Tonight, River Plate and Flamengo played the least entertaining 2-2 draw I have ever seen. It was as if all four goals were scored by accident. Both teams were dreadful. River, of course, are dreadful. I'm not sure what Flamengo's excuse is.

                                Scores so far:
                                Defensor Sporting 1-1 Grêmio
                                Monagas 0-2 Cerro Porteño
                                Colo Colo 0-1 Atlético Nacional
                                Racing 4-2 Cruzeiro
                                Nacional 0-0 Estudiantes de La Plata
                                Delfín 1-1 Bolívar
                                Millonarios 0-0 Corinthians
                                Flamengo 2-2 River Plate

                                On Thursday the two most successful clubs in the competitions history enter the fray. Independiente are away to Deportivo Lara and Boca Juniors visit Alianza Lima.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Was travelling overnight so I’ve just caught up with the Flamengo V River highlights. And yes, if those were the highlights I didn’t miss much. It didn’t help that the game was played behind closed doors at Botafogo’s Estádio Nilton Santos as a punishment for the frankly disgraceful behaviour of a substantial number of Flamengo fans at last year’s SulAmericana final against Independiente.

                                  As a side note, the stadium situation in Rio is currently farcical as the consortium that runs the Maracanã find staging Phil Collins concerts more profitable than football matches. God knows how they’re going to get the pitch back into a playable condition.

                                  In contrast, Racing v Cruzeiro looked like the tie of the round and Martinez is a name that is now definitely on my radar. The bits I saw of Defensor v Grêmio were dreadful but I very much liked Defensor’s tiny, old-school stadium.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Funny, I posted elsewhere the same thought about Defensor's stadium. Since they've been a regular in the Libertadores or Sudamericana most years, I have seen the stadium many times (plus watching Nacional play there) but the kick-off time was just right to really highlight the trees and the water in the background given the light at that time.

                                    I thought the Flamengo-River match was pretty good. When big teams have matched up in recent years, I have felt the like the hype has overwhelmed the quality but I thought the game was good. It was nowhere near as good as Racing-Cruzeiro but there won't be many that are on par with this one during the 2018 competition. The energy was fantastic and that last goal reflected a magnificent passing display.

                                    I still have not seen a couple games (Cerro Porteno and Bolivar) but the rest have been pretty average. Still I'll take this over another "as expected" outcome from the Champions League.

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                                      #19
                                      You thought Flamengo v River was good? Bloody hell.

                                      The 'water' in the background of Defensor Sporting's stadium is the Río de la Plata. It is literally across the road from a beach, and behind one of the stands there's a funfair. I've not been in it but I have walked past it a few times and it does indeed look like a lovely little ground.

                                      Tonight, two Argentine giants got disappointing results away: Independiente lost 1-0 to Deportivo Lara in an historic result for the hosts, and Boca Juniors were held 0-0 by Alianza Lima, who could have won the game in the second half in spite of Boca hitting the woodwork once in each half. That was a much better game than either the River or Independiente games were, albeit not as enjoyable as Racing v Cruzeiro.

                                      Oh, and Palmeiras have bucked the trend for Brazilian sides by actually winning. They beat Atlético Junior 3-0 in Barranquilla, to go top of Alianza and Boca's group. Also earlier, in Independiente's group, in what I think we have to say - thanks to Alianza not getting their winner against Boca - is the funniest result of the week so far, Real Garcilaso of Peru beat Santos 2-0 in Cuzco.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Now you don’t get those sort of results in the Champions League.

                                        Santos have been in reasonable form and I like their manager Jair Ventura but in this game, altitude or not, they made Real Garcilaso look like Real Madrid. The excellent Vanderlei prevented a bigger humiliation. As for Gabriel (Gabigol), it was definitely the name rather than his ability that a year or so ago had people confusing him with Gabriel Jesus.

                                        Yes, Palmeiras in Brazilian team wins a game shocker but even that might have been different if that Junior player hadn’t planted his studs in Henrique’s neck and got himself sent off.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          You would if there were clubs that played their home matches at 3400 metres of elevation

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                                            #22
                                            I have seen a fair amount of Paulista matches this season, or matches featuring the big 4 since that's what is on Gol tv in the US. I'm a week or so behind, but other than a tough loss to Corinthians and a draw to Linenese, Palmeiras have looked very good. I would expect that they will do well in the Libertadores. They certainly have unmatched depth and aren't dealing with the expectations that follow winning a title. It's funny to say that a squad that deep and a salary structure that high could make for an under-the-radar team but I think the failure in the 2017 Libertadores and the inability to repeat in the league means they should feel less pressure. The addition of Lucas Lima and Borja finally scoring goals like crazy means this side should be very dangerous. Of course, Flamengo came out flying last year and got bounced from the competition.

                                            Sudamericana this week with the Libertadores on a break already.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Rule One of Brazilian Football - never make predictions based on performances in the State Championships.

                                              Having said that, I think you’re correct that Palmeiras are the best Brazilian prospect this year. They have recruited well - you mentioned Lucas Lima but there is also Gustavo Scarpa if he can recapture his 2016 rather than his 2017 form for Fluminense. And yes, it’s about time Borja started to play like he did at Atlético Nacional. Roger Machado is a decent manager and their financial stability and squad depth is currently unmatched in Brazil.

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                                                #24
                                                Two 17 year-olds grabbed the headlines for Brazilian clubs this week - one you will have heard of, the other probably not. Vinícius Júnior came on as sub at Emelec and won the game for Flamengo with two splendid goals. He still doesn’t have a regular place in the starting line-up but his performances off the bench this year are beginning to justify the hype.

                                                Santos played for the second half with 10 men after the idiotic Gabigol (you may have worked out I’m not a fan of his) got himself sent off but a great solo goal by 17 year-old Rodrygo and two from Eduardo Sasha gave Santos a much-needed win.

                                                In Brazil the stars tend to be either very young or very old and it was 39 year-old Emerson Sheik in his third spell at Corinthians who got their first in the 2-0 win against Deportiva Lara.

                                                Oh for some 20-somethings who are anything more than journeymen.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  A big win for Santos away at Estudiantes achieved largely thanks to keeper Vanderlei and a clearly offside breakaway goal by Arthur Gomes. This really is a golden age for Brazilian goalkeepers. Vanderlei was the standout performer in Brazil last season but the are 4 or 5 others who are worthy of challenging Alisson and Ederson for an international place.

                                                  Routine home wins for Palmeiras and Grêmio against weak opposition. I’m still not completely convinced by Palmeiras and Grêmio will be hoping that manager Renato Gaúcho is not tempted by an offer from Flamengo.

                                                  Atlético Nacional lost their 100% record at Bolívar - an excellent goal by Riquelme and a last-minute missed penalty by Lenis, late of Sport Recife.

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