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    Correct. Juliano Belletti. Never scored against Real Madrid - nor anyone else in Spain while wearing a Barcelona shirt. The only goal he ever scored in Barca colours was the winner in the 2006 Champions League final, against Arsenal in Paris.



    Right up there with José Luis Brown, whose only goal for Argentina came in the World Cup final.

    One more to get, ursus.

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        Asensio then (though that is unlikely to be the case for much longer)

        I wondered if it was someone from the early days of the competition

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          Asensio scored in both legs of this season's Spanish Super Cup clasico.

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            Counting Super Cups . . .

            And I thought that I knew you by now.

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              Real Madrid v Barcelona - anytime, anywhere - is El Clásico. I mean, it's not like Rafael Lesmes being African.
              Last edited by Alex Anderson; 09-05-2018, 18:45. Reason: I've waited a long, long time for that one.

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                So, you’re one of those who paid USD 150 for a nosebleed seat at the International Champions Cup.

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                  Nope. Nor dos pesos to watch them in the Coronation Cup at the Hippodrome 116 years ago next week. All I've ever paid to watch it is my Sky subscription. Doesn't stop it being El Clásico. You can't "Corporate Boardroom" this one, arctos. There will be no bullying (stop thumping the table - you're spilling my tea). There will be no obfuscation. This is chartered accountant level. This will stand up to a forensic audit. No loopholes.

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                      A wild guess, because I don't remember him being particularly prolific at Real- Steve McManaman?

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                        Sorry - Macca scored for Real in the Nou Camp in the Champions League semi first leg, two seasons after scoring v Valencia in the Paris final.

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                          He must have scored against Barcelona, but Sergio Ramos?

                          I'm on ursus' side by the way, you can't be having goals scored in friendlies. I suppose the Super Cup escapes that categorisation on a technicality, though.

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                            Aye, I'm afraid Ramos has scored a handful for Real against Barca in la Liga over the years, Sam.

                            And I'm even more afraid of your reaction when you find out why Zoltan Czibor (scorer of Barca's ultimately futile second v Benfica in their first European Cup final, in 1961) isn't the answer either.

                            Some people just don't appreciate the significance of the Ramón de Carranza Trophy ...

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                              Not the main tournament but the other one. Anyway, has a country's three entrants to a competition all been single word names of seven letters before?

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                                Everton could really muck that up if they ... oh ... no ... hang on ...

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                                  Page 117 means 2016-17 and Dundalk’s never-to-be-forgotten(-except-for-the-bits-that-were forgotten-in-an-alcohol-induced-haze) breakthough season, by the modest standards of the League of Ireland. Dundalk were unseeded in the second qualifying round and got a bit of luck in the draw, facing Icelandic champions FH. (Until this coming season first and second qualifying round losers were out with no Europa League parachute, so progress beyond the second round guaranteed 6 games and was a major goal for the smaller countries). Dundalk struggled at home and somehow managed to become the first Irish side ever to concede a European goal to a former player- the peripatetic ex-Rangers youth Steven Lennon, before the magnificent Daryl Horgan and David McMillan combined to salvage a draw. The away leg was incredibly tense. FH were the better team first half and deserved their 1-0 lead. Dundalk upped it in the second half but a missed penalty seemed to signal the end. McMillan had other ideas though, bumbling in a 20-yarder before finishing a glorious team move to give Dundalk a 2-1 lead. The remaining 15 minutes was the longest three years of my life- Dundalk shipped an equaliser, and survived a penalty shout to progress. The trip to Iceland was the stuff of legends and every bit as surreal, stunning and eye wateringly expensive as you might expect of Reykjavik and Iceland.

                                  The “reward” for beating FH was a third round tie with Champions League veterans BATE, for the second successive season. We rode our luck in Belarus and were lucky to come away with a 1-0 defeat. The return saw one of Dundalk’s greatest ever performances, hammering BATE 3-0 to progress and guarantee group stage football of one flavour or another. For me it was a dodgy stream on a laptop in France, sadly. Still, sensational stuff. The playoff round brought another relatively favourable draw against Legia Warsaw. It was quite something to see 33,000 at a club match in Ireland. Dundalk had to move to the Aviva for what UEFA consider to be an ‘official’ Champions League match, requiring full CL livery, exclusive advertising etc. Dundalk performed reasonably, but a very dodgy penalty and a classic last minute sucker punch seemed to have killed the tie. Then we went to Warsaw and an insane, packed, passionate Army Stadium and very nearly turned it around. Robbie Benson’s screamer meant we were one goal away from extra time, but no tale of heroic Irish failure would be complete without a kick in the teeth- and a late, late equaliser to kill the tie. Real Madrid, Sporting and Dortmund narrowly avoided facing north Louth’s finest.

                                  And so Dundalk parachuted into the Europa League groups, which is another thread in itself. Like most people I assumed we were there to make up the numbers and have a bit of craic, but we brought 1,000 to AZ Alkmaar and drew (another magnificent life affirming away trip), beat Maccabi Tel-Aviv at home and should have got something out of Zenit. Ultimately we didn’t lose a group game by more than a goal and had a chance of qualifying on Matchday 6.

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                                    Brilliant stuff, Seand. I remember watching the Europa League highlights show on BT last season, avidly keeping up with their progress. Gutted for them in the end. But I had forgotten about them eliminating BATE and have no recollection of them moving the next game to the Aviva. Bloody hell - that must have been amazing.

                                    I do love the cognitive dissonance induced by the aesthetic of a side playing a home game at a different ground (Old Trafford with Celtic fans in the 84-85 CWC replay v Rapid; the San Siro decked in Juve colours for their home leg of the 94-95 UEFA Cup final v Parma).

                                    So that's Celtic and Dundalk both, this decade, hosted Legia at a ground in a different city/town to their own in the Champions League qualifiers (the nation's rugby union HQ in both cases). Not that this, of course, is the main thing to be taken from that fantastic run.

                                    There was a day - and that day was ten years ago this week - when I would be praising that run slightly patronisingly. "Oh, well done, League of Ireland - how quaint for you". But, of course, half of Scotland's clubs now want a summer season like yer own. Not because it would give us more chance not of emulating our own European-final-reaching glories of, frankly, last decade - but because it would stop us going out of Europe in July to teams from Luxembourg.

                                    I'm not being patronising. I'm just fucking jealous.

                                    Every time we discuss Dundalk I get this Proustian remembrance of an old Playing for Rangers annual I stole from an aunt, uncle or cousin when I was barely school age. I'm trying to find it amid the carnage of my February house move (that I hold onto such stuff is why we're still unpacking) but I remember it had pictures and words on Rangers playing this team which, as an ITA-trained reader, I kept thinking was gonnae be Dundee or Dundee United but always had a different ending.

                                    Just looked it up and it was the second round of the 1968-69 Fairs Cup.

                                    Two things here:

                                    (1) Your mob put Utrecht out in the previous round (in a season where Ajax reached the big final). Kudos.

                                    (2) As I was born in July 1969 and the first leg took place in November 1968, I reckon this is the first European tie Rangers played after I was conceived. As my mother is Catholic and my dad Church of Scotland (I'm neither - coz the two of them got so much hassle from zealots on both sides that they didn't need riots in the Sorbonne to engender the soixante-huitard attitude to religious institutions), I think there's poetry in West of Scotland meeting Irish Republic at that particular stage of that particular season.

                                    But, then again, us winter season zealots have always had strange ideas about the poesy.

                                    EDIT: and Steven Lennon and I were born in the same hospital. Fucking hell. There's something going on here. It's cosmic. Rangers and Dundalk - the greatest fan freundschaft in football? Or, now that I've found that book and sent you the photos on Twitter, am I just stalking you personally, Sean?

                                    I know which option is more likely.
                                    Last edited by Alex Anderson; 16-05-2018, 13:01. Reason: Same hospital Nicola Sturgeon was born in too. I'm royalty me.

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                                      Originally posted by Alex Anderson View Post
                                      Who are the only two players to have scored in the ECCC/UCL final for Barcelona and/or Real Madrid who have NOT also scored in El Clásico?
                                      Ursus got Juliano Belletti but no-one's giving me the other fellah. The other fellow. He's called Felo.

                                      Rafael Batista Hernández, aka Felo. His beautifully acrobatic effort (3 mins and 30 secs in, here) Pulled Real back into the 1964 European Cup final, for all of six minutes - until Sandro Mazzola made it 3-1 to Inter, in the Prater in Vienna.

                                      Inside right, only played 21 league games for Real according to wiki and didn't score against anybody else - even domestically - in what must have been a largely frustrating five years at the Bernabeu.

                                      Mind you, I've been using this as a fact-checker so all objections will be sustained.

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                                        This is as good a point as any to shoehorn in the story of Johnny Crossan, which I came across a while back. The thread connection has to be a quiz question (of course), so it would be: "Name the Northern Ireland international who scored twice at Ibrox in the European Cup". You could forget to add "against Rangers", depending how cruel you want to be, since scoring for them would be the obvious track to go down.

                                        The answer ... oh, damn.

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                                          Afraid he didn't score at Ibrox, tee rex. Standard didn't score here but, in the end, didn't need to. Crossan's brace came in Liege. But what a story. Thanks for posting that.

                                          Just as well he didn't play in Scotland with a nickname like "Jobby". We already had enough puerile fun with poor Rafael Scheidt.

                                          But, aye - "Name the Northern Ireland international who scored twice in a Rangers European match" would still be a deliciously horrible question. Seand's piece of trivia about Steven Lennon reminds me that I had a list - somewhere - of "foreign" Rangers players who'd scored against sides from their own country in Europe ... but, before I dig that out (no - calm down, everyone - I'll get to it eventually), there's a slightly more pressing matter at hand ...

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                                            I'm only interested in the European Cup/Champions League, pet ... tonight's final isn't the real thing ...


                                            Oh yeah? We'll see about that ...




                                            Hello? Yeah, it's me. If Atletico Madrid win tonight ...




                                            No. Come off it. Not tonight. You know what this thread's all about. Phone me back on the 26th ...




                                            Don't interrupt. If Atletico Madrid win tonight AND Real Madrid win on the 26th of May ...




                                            Oh. Oh dear. Yes. Yes, now I'm listening ...




                                            ... that will mean the winner of the Champions League has outshone a domestic derby rival who won a lesser European trophy in the same season.




                                            Oh, yes. Flippin Norah. Eeeh - that sounds lovely. Are you ... are you asking me if ... if ...




                                            If what? Say it. Am I asking you if what?




                                            ... if any winner of the European Cup/Champions League has won it in the same season as a derby rival has won either the Fairs/UEFA Cup/Europa League or Cup-Winners' Cup?




                                            Precisely.




                                            Oooh, ya dirty big wazzock ye. Bingooooo!





                                            How many times?





                                            Five - maybe six.





                                            See. Not the real thing but it sufficed for now.

                                            Five - maybe six times one of the lesser two European trophies has been won by a derby rival of the club that won the European Cup/Champions League. NAME THOSE SEASONS AND THOSE TEAMS AND THE CUPS THEY WON.

                                            Just to confirm, if both Madrid teams triumph, this season could be the sixth or seventh time it's happened. It all depends on how one of my answers is viewed by ....






                                            ... Ursus.
                                            Last edited by Alex Anderson; 16-05-2018, 13:45. Reason: It's about the definition of derby rival. Only one instance is questionable.

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                                              93/94 Milan won the EC, Inter won the UEFA
                                              96/97 Dortmund won the EC, Schalke won the UEFA

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                                                Got nothing after that. I suspect it may hang on the definition of a "derby". I think there was one year when Juventus won something and Milan won the other, which I could go for as a derby. If we're having Real Madrid and Sevilla, I'm out.

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                                                  Juve-Inter has been called the Derby d'Italia for yonks. Juve-Milan is not a Derby for me (or the large majority of Italians.

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                                                    Wouldn't do that to you, ad hoc. Correct in your Milan derby 94 and Ruhr derby 97 answers. (Derby della Madonnina, Revierderby)

                                                    Three of the remaining instances are absolutely definite, no-doubt-about-it, a derby. The fourth, I know, absolutely was.

                                                    Never mind the three straight years of Sevilla winning the Europa League while another Spanish club won the Champions League. I'm not even having 1990 - Milan (European Cup) and Juventus (UEFA Cup) - with Sampdoria, of course, winning the Cup-Winners' Cup so the whole lot was swept up not just by Italy but one wee corner up the north.

                                                    When Milan won the previous season's European Cup, Napoli won the UEFA Cup. While these are all classic fixtures and their domestic rivalries were big at the time I don't think anyone other than cross-town or cross-region rivals count. Inter v Juve is, of course, "the derby of Italy" but Inter having so many wilderness years since their rivalry was formed has diluted the veracity of its claims to be a derby.

                                                    Just so happens - by a near fucking miracle, by the way - that Juve and Inter have never won European trophies in the same season but the debatable answer to this question falls into the Juve-Inter bracket.
                                                    Last edited by Alex Anderson; 16-05-2018, 14:46. Reason: Ursus agrees.

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