England v Iceland one year on

[Patrick Thistle]

It's still funny.

Tumultuous year for England. Big Sam's one game then the pint of wine conversation. Gareth as caretaker then getting the job because there literally is no one else.

And then this summer with under 20 and under 21 success and suddenly England might be the new Germany.

I sat watching the Iceland game laughing with disbelief.

[Wouter D]

It's still funny.

Hilariously so.

One year ago, on this day, in the morning I got a phone call informing me that I got the job I applied for; a potentially life-changing promotion into my dream job which I hold at least until 2021.

You think that such a day couldn't possibly get any better, but then, in the evening, Iceland pull off this little stunt.

June 27, 2016 was a good day.

[Satchmo Distel]

England will play some stylistic stuff occasionally over the next 12 months until they meet their first decent opposition in Russia, then suddenly it will be back to hoofing it and headless chickens, with Kane yanking free kicks to Row Z. I think it's partly huge fear of failure and a sudden awareness of being found out when confronted with technical superiority.

To the Iceland game should be added failure to beat Russia, who we have just seen again looking utterly useless in the Partridge Cup.

[Jah Womble]

England will play some stylistic stuff occasionally over the next 12 months until they meet their first decent opposition in Russia, then suddenly it will be back to hoofing it and headless chickens, with Kane yanking free kicks to Row Z. I think it's partly huge fear of failure and a sudden awareness of being found out when confronted with technical superiority.

The 'technical superiority' of Iceland?

Despite some abysmal performances from pretty much all concerned, poor old Harry will always somehow be the poster boy for England's failure last summer. Luckily, it didn't affect his club form. And that's what matters most.

[Mumpo]

My prediction is that Harry Kane will never again take a free kick for England.

[Ray de Galles]

...poor old Harry will always somehow be the poster boy for England's failure last summer.

Not while Joe Hart is around, stop being such a delicate flower on your boy's behalf.

Luckily, it didn't affect his club form. And that's what matters most.

He's not proven himself in European club competition since his disappointing display last summer has he?

[Jah Womble]

Not while Joe Hart is around, stop being such a delicate flower on your boy's behalf.




He's not proven himself in European club competition since his disappointing display last summer has he?

Rather than being a 'delicate flower', I thought I was making an amusing point - at least, that was the intention. Harry was pretty dreadful during the Euros - but so were pretty much all of England's players. That was my only point.

He's just won the Golden Boot for the second consecutive season - I'll forgive him for the club's generally poor European performances.

[Ray de Galles]

He's certainly had another excellent domestic season but at a time when the gap between the EPL and other major European leagues is as large as it has been for decades. He really needs to step up against non-English opposition to justify some of the more extreme hype around him.

[pebblethefish]

You mean it's been a whole year since I spent an hour repeating "It'll all be alright, remember Cameroon in 1990, we'll come back from this, no need to worry, remember Cameroon." It wasn't till about the 87th minute that I realised that it wasn't going to happen. I was less than happy.

[Jah Womble]

He's certainly had another excellent domestic season but at a time when the gap between the EPL and other major European leagues is as large as it has been for decades. He really needs to step up against non-English opposition to justify some of the more extreme hype around him.

Correct, he does. But the rest of the team feed him, so it's kind of a 'Tottenham' rather than a 'Kane' task.

NB I don't think it's so much a 'leagues' gap as a 'clubs' gap between the EPL and Europe. Outside of the obvious suspects, Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, Monaco and Atletico on a good day, I'm not seeing much that would - or should - trouble the top six over here.

[Ray de Galles]

Well, the EPL's second placed team were also troubled by the likes of Leverkusen and Gent.

[Jah Womble]

Hence my use of the word 'should'. If you think that those teams are actually 'better' than any of the EPL top six, well, I'd have to argue.

[EIM]

I watched it in a pub with then workmates. The place was full of aggy wankers in replica shirts. I burst out laughing so loudly when Iceland scored their second I had to leave. Wonderful.

[Ray de Galles]

Hence my use of the word 'should'. If you think that those teams are actually 'better' than any of the EPL top six, well, I'd have to argue.

I struggle to think of a useful method of defining "better" than, er, results on the pitch. What's your yardstick - television income? Shirt sales? Artist's impression of the new stadium's artisanal bakery?

These weren't one-off ties, in four games against the teams that finished 12th in Germany and 4th in Belgium, England's runners up didn't win one.

[Jah Womble]

Well, I think a more efficacious way of judging whether one team is 'better' than another is by studying the leagues in which both sides compete, their overall form in said leagues and the standard of competition they face on a regular basis.

To use an extreme example: when a non-league side knocks a Premier Lge opponent out the cup, they don't suddenly become a 'better' team than their opposition, they just had the better of them on the day. (A victory over two legs is more impressive - I'll concede that - but it doesn't alter the fact.)

Sure, English teams need to wake things up in Europe (not least, mine), but - since it seems I must - I'll reiterate the use of the word 'should'. As in 'should' be beating these opponents. Which one, of course, wouldn't say about Barcelona, Real, etc.

Hope that's clear. But we can look into artisanal bakeries, if you'd rather.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

You'd think that losing to Iceland would have finally made the point that it's not that England are technically inferior to their opponents. england were a shambles in the 2006 world cup and their midfield contained the players who had finished second and third in the most recent european footballer of the year competition. in 2008 there were 10 englishmen playing in the Champions league final, before going on holiday and watching euro 2008 in their hotel bar.

It's got nothing to do with individual ability or talent, and everything to do with a failure of organization. Having 11 famous players and sending them out to make it up as they go along is such an 1950's way of doing things. The reason that spain and Germany do so well is that in 2000 they both established national coaching systems, based in large part on louis Van Gaal's tactical revolution in the 90's, which turned dutch football from a bunch of meaningless slogans, into a teachable method that you could coach to anyone. The end result of this is that those cunts go on the pitch knowing where to stand in relation to each other, and can effortlessly sling together five or six pass moves with no problem whatsoever.

English players take the pitch having to make it up from scratch in every single game. In the qualifiers this is grand because England have a load of really good players, who are able to score essentially out of nothing against the sort of teams that you meet in qualifiers. But once they come up against more organized teams in tournaments, then it all falls apart.

And Harry Kane will score a lot of goals in the Champions league when Spurs realise that not every problem can be resolved with more hard running. It's hard to be the centre forward at the apex of what can be at times a rather one dimensional team. They need to add a couple of more strings to their bow. They've got most of the hard part right.

[Patrick Thistle]

One thing that amused me at the time was that England clearly lost to a better side in terms of being tactically organised and playing to their strengths. And no pundit was brave enough to admit it.

[EIM]

"The reason that spain and Germany do so well is that in 2000 they both established national coaching systems, based in large part on louis Van Gaal's tactical revolution"

Spain and Germany were lucky they could keep Luke Shaw injury free for so long.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

With sophisticated informed banter like that, surely it's only a matter of time before you take over as Robbie Savage's partner on BT Sports.

[Incandenza]

I still grumble that Iceland was seen as the biggest humiliation that England ever suffered. The Iceland team, while not heralded, did very well in qualifying, went unbeaten in the group stage, and had players in major European leagues.

The 1950 loss to a USA team comprised of players in what was essentially an amateur league was surely far worse, and yes I am bitter that people are trying to take that away from American fans.

[SouthdownRebel]

You mean it's been a whole year since I spent an hour repeating "It'll all be alright, remember Cameroon in 1990, we'll come back from this, no need to worry, remember Cameroon." It wasn't till about the 87th minute that I realised that it wasn't going to happen. I was less than happy.

Predictable perhaps, but...

And yes, it proved that England's problems are not technical. They are certainly tactical and they are most definitely rooted in fear of failure.

Psychologically, much of English football is still stuck in the 1950s. I have a copy of Willy Meisl's book written following the Hungary defeats, and for much of it the analysis could just as easily be about English football today. However, all this has been said before. And none of it matters because JUST LOOK AT ALL THAT MONEY!

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Their Youtube clip needs some Work

[beak]

Watched this in Cafe Thijssen on the Brouwersgracht (apparently Irvine Welsh's local when he lived here fact fans, but now better known as the gaff where I sometimes do the pub quiz).

It was the first time I'd been out since the Brexit referendum, which I'd (accidentally) been back in the UK for. Whenever the volume of conversation at our table went above a certain level, some obnoxious German chap a few tables over would start loudly and demonstratively talking shite about how foolish the British are and how much he disdains them. Funnily, I could tell this because he was talking to his companions in English. Anyway. Despite the fact (or probably because) I'm about as far from being a nationalist as is possible, I was getting absolutely riled by this. Disproportionately riled. Riled enough to catch myself by surprise. I was probably a few minutes from proving all of his snidey comments accurate by starting throwing chairs about.

Anyway, he stopped when he realized how much me and my companions were pissing ourselves at England getting beat.

[Ray de Galles]

I watched it in a bar over the road from Stade de France as I'd just been at Italy v Spain. The place was full of English and German people who'd also been at the earlier game and the atmosphere was quite boisterous for a while but the English fans quietened as the events of the match unfolded, descending in to shock or black humour. The Germans tried to good-naturedly rib them for a while but even they calmed down as they realised the rest of us were intruding on private grief.

There were an Arsenal-supporting father & son on the same table as me and when Wilshere came on at half time the son said something like "He should be able to sort things out" and I couldn't stop myself snorting "What? Wilshere?!" and they sort of shrugged their shoulders resignedly. By the end the English fans were selling their tickets to the semi-final and final to the Germans for outrageous mark-ups so at least they were getting some Euros with the pound crashing post-Brexit.

Don't get me wrong, it was fucking hysterical but I did feel sorry for the England fans so kept my enjoyment to myself.

[Snake Plissken]

I think there was a moment when Harry Kane took a free kick from just inside the Iceland half and hit it over the goal line on the full and I thought of all the Brexiteers in the stands and watching in pubs and laughed the laugh of the condemned man realising the absurdity of the world.