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    #51
    Claudio is old news

    Wow thanks VA - I'm sure that's all very useful (hope you're not trying to con a newbie hehe). I've been too busy watching 'real' football today, but clearly I have to knuckle down to some serious Expert11 study over the next few days. And I'd always thought this being-a-manager-business was easy....

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      #52
      Claudio is old news

      Oh yeah, forget everything you think you know about 'real' football, it's not much help with this game...

      The above blurb from me is of help, I promise you! We don't play terrible practical jokes on the newbies around here, they usually drop themselves in it without any assistance. Ask Sits about whether you can field players in a match if they're in training at the time

      Anyway, hope that all proves to be of some use. Make sure you scoop up your free weekly donation of 1m econs from your nebulous 'sponsors', put out a short Press Release before 11pm GMT on Sunday (when the Xpert week ends/begins) for a bonus 200k, and get hiring and firing.

      Has our other new manager looked in yet, do we know?

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        #53
        Claudio is old news

        Sits wrote: Training, always bloody training.

        This.

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          #54
          Claudio is old news

          ...Not that you were strictly a 'newbie' all that time of course mate, but hey. Ahem. Sorry to accidentally wake that monkey up again, of course. *cough*giftthatkeepsongiving*cough*

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            #55
            Claudio is old news

            Sits, if you think this is bad you should hear what VA has been saying on the after dinner circuit

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              #56
              Claudio is old news

              If it's anything like Jack Charlton's after dinner speech I was at once I'm in trouble. The things he said about his brother. Our "our kid" as he called him.

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                #57
                Claudio is old news

                My experience with youth development can be summarised in a few points

                1. Don't bother with players worse than 16/3, 17/4, 18/5 or 19/6. While they may show steady progress initally, it will come to a halt in their mid-20s, while more gifted players will keep on increasing their skill level until they're about 30.

                2. Goalkeepers are impossible to develop, they have to be bought ready-made. The same is largely true for forwards. Unless you play 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 there aren't enough attackers on the pitch at the same time for you to be able to afford one being a youth prospect.

                In the twelve seasons or so I've been around I have produced several defenders and midfielders that have made it into the first team, but not a single attacker have made that step.

                3. Young players will perform worse than older players, no matter how much experience they have.

                4. It is better to spend a lot on your youth academy in the first half of the season and nothing in the second half, rather than the same amount year round. A player joining you late in the season will not have time to acquire enough development value to increase his skills, so a 17/4 will effectively become an 18/4 the next year.

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                  #58
                  Claudio is old news

                  Hmm, I would say that 1 & 2 do not match my experience.

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                    #59
                    Claudio is old news

                    Likewise.

                    For (1.), the 'skill-path' Belhaven suggests (16/3 -> 17/4 -> 18/5 etc.) is indeed widely regarded as an ideal one to begin players at. That aside though, as far as I can see players will put on skill at roughly equal rates to other players of their age, and for roughly as long, regardless of what skill level they're at. So a 17/2 should be able to make it to 18/3 and 20/5, then say 25/9 and 30/11, in the same period as a 17/4 might end up a 30/13.
                    The only reason I could see why the weaker one might "come to a halt in their mid-20s" would be because they didn't get as much opportunity to play along the way, and so haven't picked up enough match experience to keep their Development Value high enough each season.

                    Re (2.), I always used to be too scared of fielding a youth goalkeeper to try to develop any, on the assumption that putting a kid in goals amounted to throwing a game away. In more recent seasons though I've plucked up the courage to experiment, and had some pretty good success with homegrown keepers as a result. Vita Mortis' present number 1 Wilbur Greenwood is as good an example of this as any – he started as an 18/5 half a dozen seasons ago, and is about to enter the latest campaign as a 24/12.
                    The key thing here is that the game acknowledges how much of a risk the manager is taking by fielding a junior keeper: young goalies in particular pick up DV points considerably faster than their outfield colleagues. It's perfectly possible, if you start the season with a youth goalkeeper in high form, to jump him or her into double-figure DV with just one appearance. They might only need to play four or five games to get it up to say 17, if you're lucky, and can be kept on the bench for the rest of the time. The trick, of course, is deciding which games to risk them in.

                    On the forwards front, meanwhile, again I've had quite a lot of success with homegrown academy products. At Mortis our senior striker is 25/12 Alexander Grey, who started off as the junior partner at 17/4 and who has added a skillbar for eight seasons in a row since. Nowadays we tend to play 3-5-2, with two German academy youths in Hannes Rot and Horst Karmesin debuting alongside him the season before last, subbing in and out for each other most matches. They're now 20/7 and 19/6 respectively, and I hope to keep rotating them in this fashion for some considerable time to come. The important thing, as ever, is to keep players in as high a form as you can afford – and to give the kids as much time on the pitch as you dare. So many of the chances and goals in this game come from midfield, you can often afford to have a surprisingly weak strikeforce.

                    The result of this approach is something like my team Royal Atlantis, in SeanoftheShed's Heineken League, where my three strikers are 33/13 Ali Khan, 25/13 Christian King and 21/10 Olaf Hunger. Khan was in the original squad (from before I took them over) aged 17, King debuted as a very rare 16/4, and Hunger started at 17/4 and has developed like billy-o over the past few seasons while swapping in and out with King at the 45- or 60-minute mark for the most part.

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                      #60
                      Claudio is old news

                      It's not much help in the OTF league, but in leagues that have a cup competition I often use that to develop young goalkeepers. These cups are usually two-legged affairs and, where my teams are usually in the middle divisions, I can often count on a couple of games against a lower ranked side and then a couple more against a higher ranked team. This often does the trick nicely.

                      And, yes, I have no issue with developing strikers - either as the substitute for the main man in a 4-5-1 or to provide backup to a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2.

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                        #61
                        Claudio is old news

                        Interesting that you all manage to produce forwards, mine rarely seem to score goals no matter how much playing time I give them. The best own-produced forward I had managed 10 goals in 100 appearances before his skills stagnated at the age of 26. I've found that the cost is too great. and that I am better off buying a, say, 24/10 and take it from there with forwards.

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                          #62
                          Claudio is old news

                          This is my experience too. Forwards seem to gain DV very slowly, and basically be ineffective. I rarely get goals from my forwards. (This has the vicious circle effect of meaning I increasingly play only one forward and have few in the squad, thereby ensuring that they don't get any better)

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                            #63
                            Claudio is old news

                            Yes, goals from forwards are not as common as perhaps they could be...but then, a 25 goal a season striker is worth big money in real life presumably for the same reason.

                            Certainly don't expect huge numbers of goals from any young forward, with their lower skill level it simply isn't realistic unless the rest of the division is equally underdeveloped. I think the best I've had so far has one goal in about every five games and he still has a way to go so that could drop further.

                            As I understand the main impact strikers have on the mechanics of the game is on the quality of the chances your team creates. This means that a high skill forward can increase the likelihood of any player in the team scoring - which is probably one reason why midfielders proportionately score more often than perhaps they would IRL.

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                              #64
                              Claudio is old news

                              .

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                                #65
                                Claudio is old news

                                Wrong thread.

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                                  #66
                                  Bump

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                                    #67
                                    Why?

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                                      #68
                                      G-Man , Because we are coming to the end of a season and that's normally when we try and recruit. Especially as we are going to need to replace Wouter D 's Nieuwegein Kneebiters.
                                      Last edited by Etienne; 09-09-2021, 13:38.

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                                        #69
                                        Thanks Etienne - bumped the thread for seasons end and totally forgot to put why on there!

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                                          #70
                                          And for those who want to join the league with every chance of competing for the title in a couple of seasons, you probably will never have a better opportunity than taking over the Kneebiters.

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                                            #71
                                            ursus arctos here's your chance then.

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