The Coupe de France is at it again

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

I don't know what they do in the Coupe de France, but it never fails to deliver on the 'minnows progressing' front. After the weekend's ninth round, no fewer than 12 of the last 32 are certain to be third tier or lower, with a further 2 in games to be played. Of the definites, two are from the regional Championnat France Amateur, which is equivalent to our League Two and Vanarama Leagues combined, two are from the Championnat Amateur 2, which equates to our tiers 7 and 8, and there's even one survivor - Poire-sur-vie - from the division d'honneur, which I imagine is proper village teams.

Anyone know why this happens? This year is hardly unusual.

[ursus arctos]

The Coupe de France is at it again

As we've noted before, the primary factors at work here are:

1) single ties without replays, with teams two tiers or more below their opponents being guaranteed home draws (as long as their ground meets standards, if it doesn't, they get to pick a nearby ground that does)

2) the fact that the Ligue 1 clubs have come to prioritise the Coupe de la Ligue

3) the fact that the long tradition of lower level teams doing well gives them more confidence in facing "top" opposition

4) a regionalised draw through the Round of 64, which makes it more likely that teams from Ligue 1 and Ligue 2 will be draw against each other.

Poiré sur Vie were in the third tier a couple of years ago, but went bust, which is why they are now in the DH. Their ground isn't really "village" football.

This has actually been one of the best seasons for Ligue 1 clubs. Usually there are more lower tier clubs still alive at this stage.

[3 Colours Red]

The Coupe de France is at it again

That link appears to be completely broken, ursus:

[ursus arctos]

The Coupe de France is at it again

Merci bien

Notwithstanding the relatively strong Ligue 1 performance so far, we are guaranteed at least one team from the fourth tier or lower in the Round of 16, as Fréjus-Saint-Raphaël of the CFA have been drawn against the winner of the postponed match between Prix-lès-Mézières and Feignies, both of which are in the CFA 2

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

The Coupe de France is at it again

Do French fans like this? Personally, I'd love the idea of pretty much every year there being a non-league team in the last 16 of the FA Cup, along with 2 or 3 (or more) from Leagues One and Two. What the Cup's all about, innit?

[ursus arctos]

The Coupe de France is at it again

For the most part, I'd say yes.

It isn't a national obsession like the FA Cup was in mid-20th century England, but that is a reflection of the fact that football never has had that prominent a place in French society.

The idea of "romance" and a genuine interest in "minnows" progress are still there, though, and "small" clubs will get their largest crowds of the season and take thousands to away ties. Like the old FA Cup, the always sold out final (at the Stade de France) is a day out for supporters of the two sides, particularly if they are both from the provinces.

Unfortunately, all of that is somewhat less true for fans of PSG and other "big" clubs, who are aping their European "peers" by feeling that the national cup is somehow below their station.

[seand]

The Coupe de France is at it again

I have a bit of a soft spot for the Coupe De France since discovering that they include teams from the overseas departments in the qualifying rounds. . 11 teams from Reunion, Guadeloupe, Tahiti etc qualified for the seventh round alongside hundreds of clubs from level 2 down. I can only assume that the French FA provides financial assistance for the likes of fifth level Pontivy who travelled to Tahiti to beat Pirae 6-5 after extra time, and CS Moulien who travelled all the way from Guadeloupe to lose 2-1 to Mulhouse in Alsace. Just under 6,000 (SIX THOUSAND) teams participated in the CdF last season.

[ingoldale]

The Coupe de France is at it again

A fantastic competition indeed. I remember watching Thiers (at the time CFA2 and two divisions above Mauriac) narrowly seeing of my local side at the time - and the town where I lived - FC Ally-Mauriac. It wasn't to be but a lasting memory of my time in the town. I used to watch their league games too but that was by far the best occasion.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

One of this week's semi-finals will feature two teams from Championnat National, the third tier - Chambly v Les Herbiers. Neither has ever reached this stage before, nor been higher than the tier they're in now, so for the winners the prize of a final at the Stade de France - maybe against PSG - will be a proper fairy story.

[N est à?]

Preview of the final against PSG:

[Pérou Flaquettes]

My article on the Coupe de France will be in tomorrow's Observer, page 7 (centenary final on Tuesday, PSG vs third division Les Herbiers - the Vieille Dame has thrown up quite a few surprises this year, yet again. But my article is more about the Coupe in general). Because of the tabloid format, they've had to trim it but have kept about 60-65% of the text (which was long I suppose, about 1,500 words/9,000 characters, historical stuff about the Coupe etc. Unfortunately the bit about massive giant-killer Calais "doing a Darlington" in the 2000s got the chop but never mind, it might be in the - longer - online version that should appear on the Guardian site in a few hours' time. Otherwise, if it's not, I'll gather you all here and tell you a few tales about those poor Calaisiens.

[San Bernardhinault]

Nice one, Kev.

[Pérou Flaquettes]

The Eiffel Tower welcomes Vendée Les Herbiers to Paris.






Not. Some local companies and residents have erected a replica of the ET outside the Les Herbiers’ stadium.

https://twitter.com/jplusun/status/993249556669353984

[Pérou Flaquettes]

Nice one, Kev.

Thanks SB. The online Guardian version (here) was indeed a little longer than the Observer article, as they said it would. Nice of The Observer to give it nearly a full page.

They trimmed a bit and left out several paragraphs unfortunately (for spatial reasons), including my para about Calais post their amazing 2000 cup run. Interesting story I thought, I put in parallel what a club like Guingamp did with their cup proceeds in the 1970s, then in the 5th division (the Bretons used the money intelligently to build a professional club, patiently), and a club like Calais, arguably the most high-profile giant-slayer in Coupe de France history (given that they did it with panache too), who squandered their earnings (over €1m) on indifferent signings after their 2000 épopée (as amateurs, 4th division – first time a fully amateur club was reaching the Coupe final since the advent of professionalism in France in 1932) and capped off the whole sorry episode by having delusions of grandeur and "doing a Darlington". Mind, their stadium now has the greatest name in French football: the Stade de l’Épopée, the stadium of the epic cup run, you won’t find more romantic than that. Shame it’s a white elephant... They were wound up last year and now ply their trade in the ninth tier as Calais FC Hauts de France.



They also left out my more political bits on the French football association (FFF) re the French overseas clubs competing in the Coupe de France, I suppose it could be considered as being outside the scope of the Coupe itself. I highlighted the fact that the FFF covers all travel and accommodation expenses for those clubs drawn to play in mainland France or overseas, 22 clubs in total (11 overseas clubs + and 11 ones from Mainland France, the latter volunteer to be part of a specific draw, called the "tirage outre-mer"); I also pointed out that the FFF helps out the overseas clubs in times of crisis (eg, these last few years), bail them out (a few local leagues are effectively bankrupt) etc. However, – and that’s the bit they didn’t include – it’s the least the FFF can do (I phrased it more diplomatically) as the FFF’s subsidies to its football outposts, home to 2.8 million people, barely reach £3 million a year out of a budget of £200m. It might partly explain why the French Guiana and Caribbean leagues have been keen to seek closer ties with FIFA of late, eg this: La FIFA et les ligues des Antilles-Guyane ont signé ce vendredi à Zurich [2 months ago], un accord de coopération pour le développement du football dans les territoires qui permettra aux ligues d’obtenir une aide financière.

OK, I'm off to watch this final at a friend's place now, have got French TV myself but he’s got a better TV.

[Pérou Flaquettes]

Oh well, surprisingly, it wasn’t to be for Les Herbiers... The minnows put up a good fight though and even nearly reduced the arrears at the death but they looked cream-crackered and lacked that cutting edge. They've got a fun Twitter account, this is the line-up they posted before the game:

https://twitter.com/VHFootOfficiel/status/993916397389533185

[Sam]

I watched most of it, as it was televised down here. I wasn't going to bother but when I realised via Twitter that PSG were only 1-0 up after about half an hour I thought what the hell, it sounds more interesting than expected. And it was!

Quite a save the Les Herviers goalie made around the 70 minute mark (a couple of minutes before the penalty).

[Capybara]

oops

[Capybara]

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of your excellent article, Kev. I missed it when I scanned the sports pages at the weekend but read it last night. I don't know much about French domestic football so it was revealing, particularly the participation of the overseas clubs.

[tee rex]

Yes, it was a good read.

Try as they might, few clubs in Europe can match PSG's domestic treble, simply because many countries don't have a league cup to play for. In fact, every year I have to be reminded that France has one at all.

(Ireland claim to have the oldest one, incidentally).

[Felicity, I guess so]

Quite a save the Les Herviers goalie made

I see Sam has gone native and adopted interchangeable Bs and Vs (or is that even the case in Argentine pronunciation..?)

Nice one, Kev, tho I couldn't bring myself to take the slightest interest in the match

[Pérou Flaquettes]

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of your excellent article, Kev. I missed it when I scanned the sports pages at the weekend but read it last night. I don't know much about French domestic football so it was revealing, particularly the participation of the overseas clubs.

Yes, it was a good read.

Try as they might, few clubs in Europe can match PSG's domestic treble, simply because many countries don't have a league cup to play for. In fact, every year I have to be reminded that France has one at all.

(Ireland claim to have the oldest one, incidentally).

I see Sam has gone native and adopted interchangeable Bs and Vs (or is that even the case in Argentine pronunciation..?)

Nice one, Kev, tho I couldn't bring myself to take the slightest interest in the match

Thanks.

@tee rex. The Coupe de la Ligue should be scrapped. All related paper records and physical items/souvenirs/mementos/etc. should be burnt on public pyres and digital traces thoroughly expunged. Citizens of the cities and towns unfortunate enough to have been soiled by this monstrosity should be financially compensated for any distress caused and given a bank holiday – in perpetuity – on the day the cup was brought into their community. In addition, any written or oral mention of this competition should be banned and any transgression to this rule should carry a prison sentence as well as public flagellation on whipping posts branded FFF-Nike-Vive La Coupe de France.

@Felicity. I totally understand, national cups and all that, it’s not the most exciting thing in the world at the best of time. I suppose you have to be into French football as well to be interested in the Coupe, many natives don't bother although yesterday's viewing figures were good, about 6.5 million. I've personally always had a soft spot for the Coupe as I grew up in that environment and have many fond childhood memories of it. And, well, the Coupe is a particularly original domestic competition that regularly throws up plenty of cupsets and shock results, there is still a bit of that "magic" - trite as it may sound - that the FA Cup maybe doesn’t deliver anymore, in the latter stages anyhow. I barely watch the FA Cup these days, it’s become very formulaic (I know, PSG wins it every sodding year now but still plenty of scope for "excitement" up to the final).

The FA needs to revamp it and spice it up, for instance by introducing home advantage for smaller clubs and scrapping replays. If you look at the last five editions of the FA Cup, who are the real underdogs providing the frissons? Sheffield United in 2013-14 and Bradford a little the season after (both 3rd division then but hardly minnows), Lincoln a bit last year, Wigan in the quarters this year, but that’s about it.

[Pérou Flaquettes]

I watched most of it, as it was televised down here. I wasn't going to bother but when I realised via Twitter that PSG were only 1-0 up after about half an hour I thought what the hell, it sounds more interesting than expected. And it was!

Quite a save the Les Herviers goalie made around the 70 minute mark (a couple of minutes before the penalty).

[AS: Before I forget, what are the chances in % of seeing Lo Celso at the WC?]

Weird game obviously but very watchable on the whole. Les Herbiers rode their luck a little in the first half (just a bit) but certainly didn’t disgrace themselves, considering for instance that PSG trounced Monaco 7-1 only 3 weeks ago (and thumped the same Monaco 5-0 in last year’s Coupe de France semi).

Highlights:

Mathieu Pichot, Les Herbiers’ keeper, looks excellent indeed. He has second-tier experience at Laval where he was the stand-in keeper a few seasons ago. He only let in 5 goals in 9 cup rounds this year, prior to yesterday. Made a superb reaction save too just after the break on a Cavani’s close-range volley.

He is a bit of a character: just before the penalty shoot-out in the quarters vs Lens at La Beaujoire Stadium (Nantes), he isolated himself for a few minutes and covered his head with a jacket. Nobody knew what he was doing and it’s only after that the shoot-out that he revealed what had been going on under that jacket: he’d watched a YouTube clip of great goalkeepers’ saves on penalties – especially Buffon’s – to motivate himself, while listening to the Roma anthem, his favourite club. He subsequently saved 2 penalties (out of 4) and Les Herbiers went through to the semis. The penalty shoot-out is here (nicely edited and filmed – Les Herbiers are in red):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp7r...utu.be&t=2m52s

https://twitter.com/Eurosport_FR/status/968622891884359681

I really hope that Les Herbiers stay up in the National (third tier), final championship round of fixtures on Friday evening, they’ll be visiting 3rd-placed Béziers, won’t be easy but Béziers have nothing to play for now, they’re through to the promotion play-offs, so they may rest their best players for the play-offs.

It’s a very tight league, just 4 points separate the 5th-placed team from the 15th. Les Herbiers currently sit in 13th position (out of 17 clubs), 2 points above the drop zone. There are several possible relegation-related combinations involving 6-7 clubs, but Les Herbiers’ main two rivals for the maintien (staying up) are neighbouring Cholet, who will host already-relegated Créteil and should really bag at least 1 point, and Entente SSG who will travel to already-promoted Grenoble and will need 3 points. It would be very cruel for Les Herbiers to go down to the fourth-tier (almost entirely amateur) only 3 days after reaching the Coupe de France final.

[Sam]

I see Sam has gone native and adopted interchangeable Bs and Vs (or is that even the case in Argentine pronunciation..?)

Nice one, Kev, tho I couldn't bring myself to take the slightest interest in the match

Well that's embarrassing. And yes, it's the same pronunciation here as everywhere else.

[Sam]

[AS: Before I forget, what are the chances in % of seeing Lo Celso at the WC?]

Well he's going to be in the 23, barring injury. How much we get to see of him on the pitch, I'm not sure.

[Pérou Flaquettes]

.