Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bad news from South America

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • cantagalo
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    DGAC, the Bolivian civil aviation authority, has suspended LaMia, accusing them of flying without following safety protocols.

    The pilot was questioned before the flight by an employee of the national aviation agency about the adequacy of the flight plan. Apparently, planes should have a minimum of 45 minutes of spare fuel in case of emergencies. Why this advice was ignored is unclear.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hot Pepsi
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Because of the plane-crash history connection, I assume.

    Plus, the aforementioned pile of cash.

    If this were here, it would probably be safe to assume that the players all had life insurance to take care of their families and that the club and the airline would be insured.

    My guess is that a professional athlete in excellent cardiovascular shape could get a lot of insurance pretty cheap. But I don't know how it works in Brazil.

    Certainly, suing the airline wouldn't help. They don't have any money. In America, they'd probably try to sue the airport and the government somehow, but that's here, not South America.

    Leave a comment:


  • EIM
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Reginald Christ wrote: Similarly, and I hope this doesn't come across as crass, but it would be nice to believe that Manchester United could find it in their hearts to donate money to Chapecoense. I don't know what Torino's financial situation is but if there's one thing United aren't short of it's cash. It would be the human thing to do.
    Not sure why they should.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geoffrey de Ste. Croix
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    cantagalo wrote:
    Originally posted by Geoffrey de Ste. Croix
    Originally posted by cantagalo
    Atlético Nacional also used this company for flights in previous rounds. Their striker Borjá said that the players had complained about delays caused by regular refuelling stops.
    These people live on a different planet from me.
    To be fair, I think he was arguing that for long distance journeys it would be safer to travel on a larger plane and not rely on a small Bolivian company whose entire fleet amounts to three planes, two of which were out of use undergoing maintenance.
    Point taken.

    Leave a comment:


  • cantagalo
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Well done Atlético.

    Meanwhile, it has been revealed that LaMia had flown between Santa Cruz and Medellín once before, on August 22nd this year. On that occasion they refuelled in Cobija.

    The flight from Santa Cruz to Cobija took 1h 30mins. From Cobija to Medellín it took 3h 14mins.

    Leave a comment:


  • ursus arctos
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Atlético Mineiro have reportedly put two fingers up to the CBF by saying that they will not field a team and take a forfeit if they are forced to play Chape in the last round of matches.

    Good on them.

    evilC, the "expansion draft" exists in all North American pro sports that have expanded (even proper football), but I'm not sure it is the right model here, given that Chapecoense have a fully functioning reserve and youth team system (whereas NA expansion teams have nothing). Loans on economically attractive terms for a season or two strike me as the best way to ensure that the team can fulfill its fixtures while at the same time allowing talented players from the lower ranks to develop.

    Leave a comment:


  • cantagalo
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    This is Fox Sports coverage of last night's commemorations in Chapecó and Medellín.

    It's quite stunning.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jxM4LDYqcjc

    Leave a comment:


  • cantagalo
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Geoffrey de Ste. Croix wrote:
    Originally posted by cantagalo
    Atlético Nacional also used this company for flights in previous rounds. Their striker Borjá said that the players had complained about delays caused by regular refuelling stops.
    These people live on a different planet from me.
    To be fair, I think he was arguing that for long distance journeys it would be safer to travel on a larger plane and not rely on a small Bolivian company whose entire fleet amounts to three planes, two of which were out of use undergoing maintenance.

    Leave a comment:


  • cantagalo
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Reginald Christ wrote:
    Originally posted by cantagalo
    The first potential refuelling point in Northern Bolivia was not available at night.
    How did they not know that in advance? Surely that's not something that the owners of the refuelling point would neglect to publicise? It's not only a horrible tragedy, it's an outrage.
    They were going to use it for refuelling if they had been allowed to fly direct from Săo Paulo but ANAC regulations prevented a Bolivian company flying from Brazil to Colombia.

    So Chape had to take a commercial flight to Santa Cruz in Bolivia. Due to the delay, it was too dark to refuel at night as the airport at Cobija does not have adequate lighting.

    Why the pilot did not refuel at Bogota is still a mystery.

    Leave a comment:


  • evilC
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Perhaps I'm 'moving on' too soon, here, but has anyone mentioned what format the 'donating' of players by other clubs might take?

    In the NHL (and the NBA too, I think) whenever there's an expansion team, the other established teams each have to create a shortlist of a few of their peripheral players that the expansion team(s) can choose from. No team can lose more than 2 or 3 players in this 'expansion draft' so that no one team gets more disadvantaged than any other (relatively-speaking) as the better of the players provided to this pool of talent would presumably be chosen while the lesser ones would be left. I think it would be good if a similar process were used in this instance.

    I know the player personnel structures are very different in American sports from those in other nations, so I'm not sure if such a set-up would work in these circumstances. However, it would mean that Chapecoense would then probably have a decent pool of players to choose from and it would all be very transparent and 'above board'. The last thing the team could do with, I'm sure, is any kind of controversy surrounding the rebuilding of the team, that's all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geoffrey de Ste. Croix
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    cantagalo wrote: Atlético Nacional also used this company for flights in previous rounds. Their striker Borjá said that the players had complained about delays caused by regular refuelling stops.
    These people live on a different planet from me.

    Leave a comment:


  • cantagalo
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    It looks like that was exactly the risk that was taken. The distance from Santa Cruz to Medellín is almost exactly the same as the range of that plane on a full tank of fuel. The flight was running late. The first potential refuelling point in Northern Bolivia was not available at night. The second in Bogota was ignored. It seems that the delay caused by the other plane making an emergency landing caused the fuel to run out.

    Atlético Nacional also used this company for flights in previous rounds. Their striker Borjá said that the players had complained about delays caused by regular refuelling stops.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geoffrey de Ste. Croix
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Reginald Christ wrote:
    Originally posted by Geoffrey de Ste. Croix
    If it is true and the plane went down due to a lack of fuel and there was no technical issue meaning unexpected fuel loss, it is absolutely unforgivable. Of all the possible reasons for a plane to crash, pilot error in judging fuel level must be the most stupid. It is so dumb, reckless and irresponsible that at this stage and despite the leaked recordings, I still can't believe this caused it.

    There should be 0% margin for human error with something like this and I daresay if this is the cause there will be radical changes to flight rules to ensure this never happens again.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there already was a strict stipulation that any aircraft, any passenger aircraft anyway, must be carrying enough fuel to reach both its destination and its designated alternate airport?
    Yeah, this is what I am trying to fathom out. I know nothing about flying but if there was one thing I assume would be in the first day of pilot's school, it would be "make sure there's enough fuel". That's what makes me think there must be a technical fault. Surely a pilot would not and could not take that risk, certainly in 21st Century aviation.

    Leave a comment:


  • cantagalo
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Sam wrote: And in more dignified news, the event (service? Commemoration?) held at the Atanasio Girardot by Atlético Nacional was quite something. Fox Sports televised it to the continent, and while I was a little uneasy with journalists with mics asking for people's thoughts before it got going, I was grateful to them for showing it afterwards - it seemed like the entire continent was watching, and if Chapecoense are now everyone's second club, Nacional seem to have become their third. Fox Sports Brasil showed a black screen and total silence for 90 minutes.

    The Girardot was full up, and a reported 120,000 people had to be locked out: from the look of the TV pictures, they remained outside for the duration.

    (Not sure who took the original picture, but I saw it tweeted by @AnaKiCar.)
    It was a quite remarkable wasn't it?

    I have no idea how they managed to organise such a dignified and moving ceremony at such short notice. There was a recital by the Medellín Philharmonic Orchestra, a message from the Pope, an appearance by helicopters that took part in the rescue, flowers thrown on the pitch by a crowd of 52,000 all dressed in white.

    And this is the crowd outside the stadium.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Red Max
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Sam wrote: And in more dignified news, the event (service? Commemoration?) held at the Atanasio Girardot by Atlético Nacional was quite something.
    That's certainly is something quite special, but this clip of video showing when 71 doves were released and flew off together into the sky must have been an incredibly emotional moment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geoffrey de Ste. Croix
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    If it is true and the plane went down due to a lack of fuel and there was no technical issue meaning unexpected fuel loss, it is absolutely unforgivable. Of all the possible reasons for a plane to crash, pilot error in judging fuel level must be the most stupid. It is so dumb, reckless and irresponsible that at this stage and despite the leaked recordings, I still can't believe this caused it.

    There should be 0% margin for human error with something like this and I daresay if this is the cause there will be radical changes to flight rules to ensure this never happens again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Indeed, but they shouldn't feel obliged to do it if they don't want to.

    There have since been suggestions that Del Nero was actually suggesting playing it as a benefit match, and not counting it towards the league. But to put it mildly, Chapecoense's president didn't look like a man who'd taken the idea kindly when he told the press about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • G-Man
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Sam wrote: In other news, the acting president of Chapecoense says the CBF president is trying to push the club to fulfill their fixture against Atlético Mineiro on the 11th December. 'Play the kids and the players who stayed behind,' is what he claims he was told. Astonishing.
    The request may be rooted in self-interest, but the club might take that advice as a means to facilitate a public catharsis, and a way of "kickstarting" the future.

    Almost six decades after the Munich aircrash, people still remember/know about Man Utd's FA Cup tie against Sheffield Wednesday, because of everything it represented -- helped by a 3-0 win, of course. The December 11 game could become such a moment in Chapecoense's history.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    And in more dignified news, the event (service? Commemoration?) held at the Atanasio Girardot by Atlético Nacional was quite something. Fox Sports televised it to the continent, and while I was a little uneasy with journalists with mics asking for people's thoughts before it got going, I was grateful to them for showing it afterwards - it seemed like the entire continent was watching, and if Chapecoense are now everyone's second club, Nacional seem to have become their third. Fox Sports Brasil showed a black screen and total silence for 90 minutes.

    The Girardot was full up, and a reported 120,000 people had to be locked out: from the look of the TV pictures, they remained outside for the duration.

    (Not sure who took the original picture, but I saw it tweeted by @AnaKiCar.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    I saw that earlier. He sounds like a right charmer.

    CONMEBOL have just tweeted a link to this statement, in which they deny that they play any part in organising transport for clubs, and also say that they don't oblige any teams to use certain providers.

    Leave a comment:


  • cantagalo
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    cantagalo wrote:
    Originally posted by Sam
    In other news, the acting president of Chapecoense says the CBF president is trying to push the club to fulfill their fixture against Atlético Mineiro on the 11th December. 'Play the kids and the players who stayed behind,' is what he claims he was told. Astonishing.
    Just when you are thinking that the only heartening aspect of this appalling tragedy has been the solidarity shown by clubs worldwide.

    Then enter the CBF.
    Then enter Vice-President of Internacional, Fernando Carvalho.

    He's criticised the postponement of the final league game until December 11th, saying it could damage Inter's chances of avoiding relegation. While expressing solidarity with Chapecoense, he said that Inter were also living through their own 'private tragedy'.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    cantagalo wrote: Then enter the CBF. The president is, of course, Marco Polo Del Nero, a man who dares not leave Brazil for fear of arrest for corruption.
    He didn't travel for the match because he was afraid the FBI would arrest him if he left Brazil. Instead, he sent one of the CBF's vice-presidents, who was killed in the crash.

    Leave a comment:


  • cantagalo
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    There is no reason whatsoever for this match to be played. It affects neither the remaining relegation place to be decided nor the Libertadores places.

    Atlético will definitely finish fourth. Chape could finish between 8th and 11th.

    Leave a comment:


  • cantagalo
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Sam wrote:
    In other news, the acting president of Chapecoense says the CBF president is trying to push the club to fulfill their fixture against Atlético Mineiro on the 11th December. 'Play the kids and the players who stayed behind,' is what he claims he was told. Astonishing.
    Just when you are thinking that the only heartening aspect of this appalling tragedy has been the solidarity shown by clubs worldwide.

    Then enter the CBF. The president is, of course, Marco Polo Del Nero, a man who dares not leave Brazil for fear of arrest for corruption.

    I hope Chape and Atlético tell him to fuck off.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam
    replied
    Bad news from South America

    Apparently LaMia didn't even have the necessary disaster insurance for something like this, and had to rely on Avianca's generosity to provide the ambulances and other emergency vehicles, So how the families are going to be compensated is anyone's guess.

    And reportedly, Nacional did ask for the prize money Chape would get for winning the cup to be divided between the victims' families. US$2m split 71 ways...

    Even with the pilot's horrendous risk:reward calculations, had that Avianca plane not happened to be leaking fuel as well he'd presumably have been given priority landing and we'd all now be looking forward to watching/ignoring/being unaware of [delete according to your situation] the match in three and a half hours' time. It's heartbreaking.

    Nacional are opening the stadium at the time of the match and encouraging fans to go along dressed in white for a vigil.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X