Why can’t it just be called the “penalty box?”
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The Refereeing Thread
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Originally posted by imp View PostWhat I really hate, though, is the drawing of the offside lines to prove that someone was a half fucking inch offside. That's not just depriving the fans of the emotional moment when they celebrated, it's counter to the whole spirit of the game and the point of the offside law - which, in case we've forgotten, is to stop players hanging around the goalmouth waiting for the ball, not to punish good play then ruled out by a supposed infringement only visible to a fucking computer.
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- Jul 2016
- 9278
- Dublin
- Bohemian FC Manchester United Mansfield town Torino Berwick rangers
- Chocolate Digestives
Nowadays offside seems to be given if a players foot is offside, in my innocence I always thought that a) the main trunk of a players body had to be offside and b) referees were supposed to give the attacker the benefit of the doubt.
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No, it can be as little as a big toe if the computer picks it up. The "benefit of the doubt" thing was never enshrined in the laws, I think it may have been a well-meaning guideline at some point in the 90s, possibly earlier, that's never mentioned nowadays.
The spirit of the offside law is to stop the game being a farce as a spectacle. Enforcing it to the last millimetre makes no sense in pure footballing terms. That is, no one's seeking an advantage by being one inch offside in the same way that they are by fouling or deliberately handling the ball. It doesn't reflect unfairly on the merits of the two teams involved if a goal is awarded that was, technically, one inch offside. Therefore to use video evidence to annul a perfectly decent piece of play that's already been celebrated by the scoring team's fans is a disgraceful development. It should be something like they have in cricket - yes, we see from the VAR that it was technically an inch offside, but we stick by the referee's original decision because it wasn't possible to detect it by the naked eye (unlike when, say, there's space between the attacker and the second last defender).
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You can't really write that into the law, that's the problem. Now that we're apparently stuck with video evidence for offside decisions I feel that there's not much chance of going back unless we abolish VAR. Even my suggestion above would leave too much room open for interpretation and tedious controversy.
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Originally posted by imp View PostIt should be something like they have in cricket - yes, we see from the VAR that it was technically an inch offside, but we stick by the referee's original decision because it wasn't possible to detect it by the naked eye (unlike when, say, there's space between the attacker and the second last defender).
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The lack of joy when a wicket is taken in cricket and rather than having the crowd celebrate, they spend a few minutes staring at a big screen waiting for an insurance company sponsored logo trying to create fake excitement by switching between a Not Out and Out sign has become almost soul destroying in cricket. The referee trotting over to look at the screen at the side of the pitch in the European Cup has had the same effect on me, even when goals I want overturned are overturned. Get rid of it.
But, if you can't get rid, then have two cricket rules - one, the umpire's call stands for offside decisions the width of a ball; and two, only the captain or manager of the team can call for the VAR and then only one incorrect decision per match before losing the ability to appeal.
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Think I had the ultimate cluster-fuck of a game today - 12 yellow cards, 2 time penalties, one straight red, and one coach dismissal. The home side refused to pay me because "you sent our trainer off". Full report to follow in a couple of days.
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Originally posted by imp View PostThink I had the ultimate cluster-fuck of a game today - 12 yellow cards, 2 time penalties, one straight red, and one coach dismissal. The home side refused to pay me because "you sent our trainer off". Full report to follow in a couple of days.
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[URL]https://twitter.com/TheHarryMcC/status/1142489483755081731[/URL]
Second Captains interview this 20-year old referee who posted this on Twitter on their show today, well worth a listen:
https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptain...-ref-quits-lvg
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"Then one of his players knocks on my changing room door and asks me if it's true I haven't been paid. I confirm that's the case. He lays a two cent coin down on the table then leaves."
What a deeply unpleasant thing to do.
I'm glad you're continuing, as I very much enjoy reading what you write. But if the two-cent thing had happened to me, I'd have hung up my whistle and ill-fitting shorts on the spot.
I genuinely think lower-league football in its current format will be fucked in ten years or so, tops, because of stuff like that. There simply won't be any refs anymore.
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Originally posted by treibeis View Post"Then one of his players knocks on my changing room door and asks me if it's true I haven't been paid. I confirm that's the case. He lays a two cent coin down on the table then leaves."
What a deeply unpleasant thing to do.
I'm glad you're continuing, as I very much enjoy reading what you write. But if the two-cent thing had happened to me, I'd have hung up my whistle and ill-fitting shorts on the spot.
I genuinely think lower-league football in its current format will be fucked in ten years or so, tops, because of stuff like that. There simply won't be any refs anymore.
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Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View PostThis is relevant.
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The problem with youth sports is, as always, parents and their misplaced priorities and lust for vicarious glory and need to tell the other parents that their kid got a scholarship or whatever. They've all but ruined sports and now they're going after everything else. Why isn't it enough for the high school thespians to do a good show? Why must they also go to theater competitions?
The usual retort to that is "because that's how the 'real world' is!!" But insofar as the "real world" is like that*, it's because grasping, greedy, self-centered fuckers like the "We got it all on video"- parents have made it that way. We have a choice.
It isn't just bad for society and the kids' emotional development, it's not good for the development of the players as players. Because, as we've discussed before, the strategies and tactics that allow a team to win a lot at the U10 level, are not going to develop the skills they need to play at a high level.
Referee-abuse seems to be particularly bad in soccer. Part of that is that it's just a really hard game to officiate and so much can ride on one call or non-call, but also because the highest levels of the game are providing terrible role models for how to treat the officials and the organizations don't seem to be doing much to support their officials or crack down on abuse.
* In my experience, the real world is rarely like that. Most days on most jobs don't produce clear cut wins and losses. It's all much more ambiguous and complicated than that and ultimately most of us are getting paid a lot less than we're really worth - that's how labor in capitalism works - so we somehow have to find some satisfaction, or not, in the work for its own sake.
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This isn't just hippy new-age stuff. Every D1 and pro coach that I've heard discuss it say that they wish kids did multiple sports or activities and focused more on their "approach" than the result. Every single one. And yet somehow that goes in one ear and out the other with so many parents.
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Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View PostThis isn't just hippy new-age stuff. Every D1 and pro coach that I've heard discuss it say that they wish kids did multiple sports or activities and focused more on their "approach" than the result. Every single one. And yet somehow that goes in one ear and out the other with so many parents.
I reffed kids soccer yrs ago and never had too many issues. Later a ref buddy of mine tried to get me to move up to high school games - however after watching a couple of JV matches I was blown away at the asshole actions of the parents and easily declined.
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Originally posted by ursus arctos View Postthe entreaties of the youth sports industrial complex.
Great contribution, Reed. Well, we talked about this dozens of times in the US, I know. I also find in Germany that a lot of coaches pay lip service to the idea of hands-off coaching by stressing how much they care about player development over results, then I see them on the touchline running up and down and yelling constant instructions at the players and remonstrating with the ref. It‘s not just refereeing I‘m often on the verge of quitting, but coaching and the whole youth soccer scene too.
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The footballing authorities at the very highest level need to take the bulk of the blame for not supporting refs with dissent etc from managers and players. In my opinion, the authorities are too scared of the big clubs, the big managers and the big players to do anything about it. Remember the “Respect” campaign? Stupidly attempted on a bottoms-up basis. How is your average Sunday league headbanger supposed to Respect the ref, when the night before watching MOTD he sees Keavey, Ashley Cole, Rooney, Fergie etc giving the ref absolute pelters and showing no respect whatsoever.
on a separate note, my favourite quote from an opposition coach, when I was coaching my son’s under 11 team, was “boys, you’re making too many schoolboy errors”. Brilliant.
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Football should follow hockey’s lead and mandate that only the captain or their alternate can talk to the ref. (The head coach can also talk to the ref in hockey in some circumstances). It’s a sport that tolerates fighting, but refs are generally treated with civility, if not actual respect. That’s why the “have another doughnut” was such a big deal. In football, I’m not even sure that would have necessarily led to a suspension.
But that tradition was started in Canada in different era. Perhaps there’s no way to stand up to the big football clubs and federations now.
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