The Refereeing Thread

[San Bernardhinault]

1, 2 and 4 seem - to my untrained eye - to call for red cards for the players but no change to the play. In numbers 1 and 4 you wait til a break in play then red card the offenders. In 2 you red card the 'keeper and then let the replacement keeper take the goal kick.

6 has to be a trick question, because the obvious thing is to award the offside and restart the game with the offside kick (presumably blowing the final whistle a second time seconds later).

The pragmatic answer to 5 is that the ref says "Yeah, I deserved that insult. What a fuck up on my part. Sorry, lad. Carry on - but you're still on a yellow, so tread carefully."

I have no idea what I'd do with 3.

[DCI Harry Batt]

As you're supposed to abandon the game if a team gets reduced to six players, then I would say: No - should have waited and held up play to check the player was fit enough to return. How can a physio know if a player he/she hasn't treated yet will be fit to return after treatment?

If and when the player isn't able to return, then the game would be abandoned. But while the player's getting treatment, the team hasn't been reduced to fewer than seven.

That's what went through my mind anyway.

[imp]

DCI Harry Batt - you are possibly right. A minute a go I thought my answer was right, but I only thought I was right after reading your initial response. Imagine you have two seconds to make these decisions on the field.

@ San B - they not only require the punishments (that's the easy bit - of course whacking a spectator, throwing a snowball etc. is a red card), but want to know the re-start (penalty, indirect free-kick, direct free-kick etc.), and the location of the restart (where the ball was when play stopped, where the player was standing, on the touchline etc.).

[Hot Pepsi]

1. The referee sees that, with the ball in play, a defender standing in his/her own penalty area throws a snowball with force at an opposition team official, who's standing two yards outside the field of play, next to the goal. What decision does the referee make?

Red. Play advantage of if necessary.

2. As the team-mate of the goalkeeper is taking a goal-kick, the goalkeeper leaves the field of play via the end-line. Before the ball has left the penalty area, the goalkeeper whacks a spectator around the head. What do you do?

Red. Stop the game.

3. Team A starts the game with seven players, including a goalkeeper. In the 12th. minute one of its players leaves the field for treatment. The physio says the player will be back on the field in two minutes. So the ref lets play continue and already after a minute the injured player is ready to come back on. Did the ref act correctly?

I don't see the issue here. Let him back on. Are physios usually expected to quote an exact time? I can see if the whole thing were clearly a time-waster that maybe there'd be need to make him wait another minute, but two vs one minute in the first quarter of the game probably isn't that.

4. In a promising situation in the penalty area for the attacking team, an injured defender - who's off the field but right next to the goal - throws a spare ball on to the field in an attempt to hit the match ball. He/she misses, but the opponent is so distracted by the attempt that he/she messes up the attack. Decision?

Stop the game. Assuming the extra ball was thrown into the penalty area, penalty kick. Player who did that is banned for at least a game. Can a team get a card for somebody not on the field?

5. In the second half a player gets a yellow card for foul play. The referee mistakenly thinks he's already given him/her a yellow earlier in the game, so shows him a red card. In response the player insults the referee. The AR has seen the mistake and brings it to the ref's attention. Now what?

Depends on how insulting it was. If it was more than simply "c'mon, that's not two yellows yet" Show another yellow and then a red. Pretend like you didn't show the red the first time.

6. Shortly before the end of the game the away team scores the winner to make it 2-1. The referee awards the goal, although his AR is standing there with his/her flag raised for offside. Because time is up and the ref hasn't seen the AR's flag, he/she blows for full-time right after giving the goal. The AR alerts the ref to the offside position of the goalscorer. What's the decision?

No goal. Defending team restarts as in an offside. Blow the whistle a few seconds later (to account for the time lost between the original offside and the goal and the time it took to sort it out.)

[San Bernardhinault]

@ San B - they not only require the punishments (that's the easy bit - of course whacking a spectator, throwing a snowball etc. is a red card), but want to know the re-start (penalty, indirect free-kick, direct free-kick etc.), and the location of the restart (where the ball was when play stopped, where the player was standing, on the touchline etc.).

That's what my "no change to play" was meant to say - if people outside the field of play do stupid stuff, then you just let play continue until there's an actual stoppage, and at that point you issue the cards. Or, in the goal kick situation, you still have a goal kick to be taken.

[tee rex]

With this second batch of questions I'm getting more and more concerned for the question-setter, or the unfortunate people he lives with. You can picture him trying to relax with a detective novel or other non-football diversion, then leaping up and saying "Ooh, I could use that".

7. As a direct free kick is about to be taken, there is an earth tremor, and the ball moves. The player immediately thumps the ball into the net. Verdict?

8. A very nervous player literally shits himself during play, causing his white shorts to change colour and clash with opponents' kit. What action should you take?

9. Two identical twins are playing for the same team. During a penalty shootout, when the first twin has already scored, the second twin walks up to take a later penalty. His shirt number is correct but you notice his boots have changed colour. What action .. ?

10. A tardis appears on the pitch ... (oh shut up ...)

[Kevin S]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25685868

[tee rex]

Heh. I think that story had lodged itself somewhere in my cobwebbed brain.

[imp]

Nor trying to be smart with you, but I post these questions partly to illustrate how poorly most people know the Laws of the Game (myself included, as a referee of ten years). So when they ask these obscure questions about snowballs etc. (and I share tee rex's concern for the question-creator and his family), they want to know if you know the correct punishment, re-start, and the position of that re-start. They keep changing these every season, partly in recent years in an attempt to simplify the laws, but it's not much help - you just feel like you have more obscure shit to remember. So here are just three sections from Law 3, 'Players', for example, pertaining to situations that may or (more likely) may not arise:

[And in the German version, there are then several extra 'explanatory notes' at the end of each Law.]

7. Extra persons on the field of play
If a team official, substitute, substituted or sent off player or outside agent enters the field of play the referee must: only stop play if there is interference with play • have the person removed when play stops • take appropriate disciplinary action

If play is stopped and the interference was by:
*• a team official, substitute, substituted or sent off player, play restarts with a direct free kick or penalty kick
•* an outside agent, play restarts with a dropped ball
If a ball is going into the goal and the interference does not prevent a defending player playing the ball, the goal is awarded if the ball enters the goal (even if contact was made with the ball) unless the ball enters the opponents’ goal.

If a player who requires the referee’s permission to re-enter the field of play re-enters without the referee’s permission, the referee must:

8. Player outside the field of play
If a player who requires the referee’s permission to re-enter the field of play re-enters without the referee’s permission, the referee must:
• stop play (not immediately if the player does not interfere
*• stop play (not immediately if the player does not interfere with play or a match official or if the advantage can be applied)
• caution the player for entering the field of play without permission
If the referee stops play, it must be restarted:
* with a direct free kick from the position of the interference
•* with an indirect free kick from the position of the ball when play was stopped if there was no interference

A player who crosses a boundary line as part of a playing movement, does not commit an offence.


9. Goal scored with an extra person on the field of play
If, after a goal is scored, the referee realises, before play restarts, an extra person was on the field of play when the goal was scored:
•
- the referee must disallow the goal if the extra person was:
•* a player, substitute, substituted player, sent off player or team official of the team that scored the goal; play is restarted with a direct free kick from the position of the extra person
•* an outside agent who interfered with play unless a goal results as outlined above in ‘extra persons on the field of play’; play is restarted with a dropped ball
•
- the referee must allow the goal if the extra person was:
•* a player, substitute, substituted player, sent off player or team official of the team that conceded the goal
•* an outside agent who did not interfere with play

In all cases, the referee must have the extra person removed from the field of play.
If, after a goal is scored and play has restarted, the referee realises an extra person was on the field of play when the goal was scored, the goal can not be disallowed. If the extra person is still on the field the referee must:
•- stop play
•- have the extra person removed
•- restart with a dropped ball or free kick as appropriate
The referee must report the incident to the appropriate authority.

[imp]

And here's section 4 of Law 12 ('Fouls and Misconduct'), in which you'll find the answers to some of the above questions:

4. Restart of play after fouls and misconduct against:
•* an opponent –- indirect or direct free kick or penalty kick
*• a team-mate, substitute, substituted or sent off player, team official or a
match official –- a direct free kick or penalty kick
•* any other person -– a dropped ball

If, when the ball is in play:
-• a player commits an offence against a match official or an opposing player, substitute, substituted or sent off player, or team official outside the field of play or
•a substitute, substituted or sent off player, or team official commits an offence against, or interferes with, an opposing player or match official outside the field of play, play is restarted with a free kick on the boundary line nearest to where the offence/interference occurred; a penalty kick is awarded if this is a direct free kick offence within the offender’s penalty area.

If a player standing on or off the field of play throws an object (including the ball) at an opposing player, substitute, substituted or sent off player, or team official, match official or the ball, play is restarted with a direct free kick from the position where the object struck or would have struck the person or the ball. If this position is off the field of play, the free kick is taken on the nearest point on the boundary line; a penalty kick is awarded if this is within the offender’s penalty area.

If an offence is committed outside the field of play against a player, substitute, substituted player or team official of their own team, play is restarted
with an indirect free kick on the boundary line closest to where the offence occurred.

If a player makes contact with the ball with an object (boot, shinguard etc.) held in the hand play is restarted with a direct free kick (or penalty kick).

If a substitute, substituted or sent off player, player temporarily off the field of play or team official throws or kicks an object onto the field of play and it interferes with play, an opponent or match official, play is restarted with a direct free kick (or penalty kick) where the object interfered with play or struck or would have struck the opponent, match official or the ball.

[seand]

1. Red card and restart with, erm, penalty?
2. Red card, restart with drop ball. Somewhere. Maybe.
3. No, don’t think you can play on with 6. Allow time for treatment, then make the call.
4. Jaysus, they’re tough this month, aren’t they? Yellow card and report gross unsportsmanship, don’t know if we can do anything more than the yellow right now during the match though? edit: from imp's post this morning looks like it's a penalty
5. Rescind the second yellow/red. Have a stern word with the player about the insult and let it go. You really fooked that one up didn’t you?
6. Disallow the goal, allow IFK for offside then blow up. You’re having a bloody mightmare here.

[imp]

seand - very good stab at the answers, and you're right, what a series of cock-ups. That's been my complaint in the past - that if as a referee you are making some of these calls then you shouldn't even be out there, let alone taking the test. On the last-minute offside call, for example - ffs, what referee doesn't look at his linesman to see if the flag's been raised after a goal where the attacker might have been in an offside position. Add to that - at least six defending players would be screaming at you , "The linesman's got his ****ing flag up!" so I very much doubt you'd get the chance to blow the whistle for full-time before the usual verbal assault. In fact those six players would have been screaming "Offside!" before the ball even crossed the line, so if you didn't look at your linesman at that point then, yep, just fucking quit, you blind, deaf bastard. But none of those are given as options in the answer box.

[Sporting]

Can I briefly interrupt these questions/answers to ask one of my own?

I was under the impression that goalies had to wear a different coloured shirt to the outfield players, so how come the Chelsea keeper here (against PSG last night) seems to flout the rule? Disclaimer: I am slightly colour-blind so there may be shades going on here which I simply don't see,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMCcXvw0M0A

Have a look at the Levante goalie if you have the match on. Same colour or as near as dammit as the outfield players?

[ursus arctos]

Lordy

[URL]https://twitter.com/marca/status/1122216467532001280?s=21[/URL]

[imp]

The handball Law is a mess, Fifa's not helping to improve it, and no one has any better suggestions on how to clarify it. All of which flashed through my mind on Sunday when failing to heed a mass call for a penalty.

[Janik]

1. The referee sees that, with the ball in play, a defender standing in his/her own penalty area throws a snowball with force at an opposition team official, who's standing two yards outside the field of play, next to the goal. What decision does the referee make?
Red card to the player for violent conduct. Restart with a penalty kick as the player was inside the penalty area when the offence occurred.

2. As the team-mate of the goalkeeper is taking a goal-kick, the goalkeeper leaves the field of play via the end-line. Before the ball has left the penalty area, the goalkeeper whacks a spectator around the head. What do you do?
Yellow to the 'keeper for leaving the field of play without permission, followed by a straight red for violent conduct in assaulting the spectator. As that occurred off the field of play, restart with a drop ball at the nearest point outside the penalty area to where they departed the field.

3. Team A starts the game with seven players, including a goalkeeper. In the 12th. minute one of its players leaves the field for treatment. The physio says the player will be back on the field in two minutes. So the ref lets play continue and already after a minute the injured player is ready to come back on. Did the ref act correctly?
No. 7 players is a clearly stated minimum. The game cannot continue with 6 players on the field, even if for only for a couple of minutes. Either the ref should have paused the game whilst the treatment was ongoing or, more likely, abandoned when the side went down to 6.
This is one that something similar has actually vaguely happened unlike the other magicked up scenarios. The infamous Sheffield United-West Brom game ended not on a red card but with a Blades player leaving the field with injury. The second one to do that, in fact.

4. In a promising situation in the penalty area for the attacking team, an injured defender - who's off the field but right next to the goal - throws a spare ball on to the field in an attempt to hit the match ball. He/she misses, but the opponent is so distracted by the attempt that he/she messes up the attack. Decision?
Yellow card for the injured defender for unsporting conduct. Direct free-kick to the attacking team at the spot where the attack was when the spare ball distracted them. If this was inside the area, then penalty.

5. In the second half a player gets a yellow card for foul play. The referee mistakenly thinks he's already given him/her a yellow earlier in the game, so shows him a red card. In response the player insults the referee. The AR has seen the mistake and brings it to the ref's attention. Now what?
Rescind the spurious second yellow card. Then issue a new second yellow and therefore red for foul and abusive language. However justifiably angry the player was, they could have argued their case without resorting to insults. They didn't. They deserve their red.

6. Shortly before the end of the game the away team scores the winner to make it 2-1. The referee awards the goal, although his AR is standing there with his/her flag raised for offside. Because time is up and the ref hasn't seen the AR's flag, he/she blows for full-time right after giving the goal. The AR alerts the ref to the offside position of the goalscorer. What's the decision?
The game is over once the final whistle has been blown. The 2-1 result stands.

[Nesta]

1. Switch to the orange ball
2. Run to the incident and dish out a few slaps yourself to the spectator who's probably one of those irritating twats
3. No, he should have forbidden the injured player to leave the pitch or receive treatment
4. Allow a period of multi-ball play
5. Provoke the player to an act of violence against you, thus making a red card decision clear-cut
6. Start celebrating with the away team players

[seand]

The handball Law is a mess, Fifa's not helping to improve it, and no one has any better suggestions on how to clarify it. All of which flashed through my mind on Sunday when failing to heed a mass call for a penalty.

Well done imp, like 80% of handball offences it shouldn't have been given. Balls hit hands and arms, let's just get on with it. Apart from (the related) VAR sucking the joy and spontaneity out of the game the ubiquity of handball is the worst thing about football for me right now. Even playing 5 a side last night a mate had a clearance cannon off his arm from a couple of yards and called the handball against himself, despite it being entirely obvious that there was no intention to play the ball with the arm and no time to get out of the way.

[imp]

The answers. And no doubt in an attempt to stop myself, and presumably others, from bombarding them with emails querying their answers, they're now giving explanations for every answer too, which is undoubtedly progress:

1. The referee sees that, with the ball in play, a defender standing in his/her own penalty area throws a snowball with force at an opposition team official, who's standing two yards outside the field of play, next to the goal. What decision does the referee make?
A. Penalty, penalty spot, red card.
Explanation: a physical attack against an official of the opposing team is punishable with a direct free kick on the touchline. As in this case that would be the touchline of the penalty area, a penalty kick's awarded.

2. As the team-mate of the goalkeeper is taking a goal-kick, the goalkeeper leaves the field of play via the end-line. Before the ball has left the penalty area, the goalkeeper whacks a spectator around the head. What do you do?
A. Re-take the goal kick, six-yard box, red card.
Explanation: the ball's not yet in play as it hasn't left the penalty area, therefore a re-take is necessary [this rule will be changed next season, so the question's pretty superfluous - imp]. Red card needs no explanation.

3. Team A starts the game with seven players, including a goalkeeper. In the 12th. minute one of its players leaves the field for treatment. The physio says the player will be back on the field in two minutes. So the ref lets play continue and already after a minute the injured player is ready to come back on. Did the ref act correctly?
A. No.
Explanation: No play should be allowed when one team is reduced to six players or less. The referee should have waited the short period until the treatment was finished and the player back on the field.

4. In a promising situation in the penalty area for the attacking team, an injured defender - who's off the field but right next to the goal - throws a spare ball on to the field in an attempt to hit the match ball. He/she misses, but the opponent is so distracted by the attempt that he/she messes up the attack. Decision?
A. Penalty, penalty spot, yellow card.
Explanation: By throwing the ball the defender is physically intervening in the game, for which the punishment is a direct free-kick, in this case a penalty. Punishment is only a yellow because it didn't deny a clear goal-scoring opportunity, merely disrupted a promising attack.

5. In the second half a player gets a yellow card for foul play. The referee mistakenly thinks he's already given him/her a yellow earlier in the game, so shows him a red card. In response the player insults the referee. The AR has seen the mistake and brings it to the ref's attention. Now what?
A. direct free-kick, where foul committed, red card
Explanation: Second yellow is retracted after talk with the linesman, but insulting the referee is a straight red card offence, so (s)he's off.

6. Shortly before the end of the game the away team scores the winner to make it 2-1. The referee awards the goal, although his AR is standing there with his/her flag raised for offside. Because time is up and the ref hasn't seen the AR's flag, he/she blows for full-time right after giving the goal. The AR alerts the ref to the offside position of the goalscorer. What's the decision?
A. Game is over. Result stands.
Explanation: When the ref ends the game, any incidents that took place before the final whistle are no longer punishable. This rule does not apply after the end of the first half as it's only a break in play.

I got these all right, but got a different question wrong, which was as follows:
Q. The attacker wearing number 8 is standing in an offside position 18m in front of the opponent's goal when a team mate plays him/her the ball. The defenders are a good 5m away from number 8. Number 8, without touching the ball, lets it run through his/her legs where it continues to a team-mate, who wasn't offside when the ball was played, and the team-mate scores.
A. Goal.
Explanation: Number 8 doesn't interfere in play because he/she neither plays the ball, nor is he/she blocking a defending player's view, nor is he/she in a direct duel with a defender.

I gave it offside, because to me moving your legs apart to let the ball run between them seems very much like an involvement in the play. But it turns out that I'm wrong. I passed, though, so I'm not going to bother them with an email this month, especially as they've been good enough to add the explanations.

[imp]

The winner is Janik with 10 out of a possible 12 points, way ahead of anyone else. You win a free subscription to my refereeing blog, which is admittedly free already, but it's the taking part that counts. An all-expenses paid trip to Frankfurt to watch me getting abused during an amateur game would have been the prize if you'd got 12 points (insert gag about the second prize being two trips to Frankfurt etc.).

There have been nine tests this season, so I'm hoping that's it until after the summer. To re-certify we have to pass a fitness test, and take a 15-question written test in exam conditions. They don't tell you this, but all the questions are selected from the season's online tests, so revision is straightforward. Unless you haven't bothered doing them, in which case you can not see the answers online. They send out a spreadsheet with everyone's marks, so you can see some spectacular failures among your colleagues - last year someone managed to get 4 out of 30. Good to know he's probably no longer out there damaging our reputation.

[Janik]

I so nearly said straight red for foul and abusive language for the player initially wrongly sent off as well. Ah well...

[Patrick Thistle]

I have no idea on these. This is what I'd do.

1. The referee sees that, with the ball in play, a defender standing in his/her own penalty area throws a snowball with force at an opposition team official, who's standing two yards outside the field of play, next to the goal. What decision does the referee make?

Stop play, send the prat off, restarting with a contested drop ball roughly where the ball was when play was stopped.

2. As the team-mate of the goalkeeper is taking a goal-kick, the goalkeeper leaves the field of play via the end-line. Before the ball has left the penalty area, the goalkeeper whacks a spectator around the head. What do you do?

Stop play, send the prat off, restart with a goal kick.

3. Team A starts the game with seven players, including a goalkeeper. In the 12th. minute one of its players leaves the field for treatment. The physio says the player will be back on the field in two minutes. So the ref lets play continue and already after a minute the injured player is ready to come back on. Did the ref act correctly?

No. Stop play and wait or abandon the game immediately.


4. In a promising situation in the penalty area for the attacking team, an injured defender - who's off the field but right next to the goal - throws a spare ball on to the field in an attempt to hit the match ball. He/she misses, but the opponent is so distracted by the attempt that he/she messes up the attack. Decision?

Penalty and injured defender gets sent off.

5. In the second half a player gets a yellow card for foul play. The referee mistakenly thinks he's already given him/her a yellow earlier in the game, so shows him a red card. In response the player insults the referee. The AR has seen the mistake and brings it to the ref's attention. Now what?

Player stays on. Player is made to thank the AR and warned about language.

6. Shortly before the end of the game the away team scores the winner to make it 2-1. The referee awards the goal, although his AR is standing there with his/her flag raised for offside. Because time is up and the ref hasn't seen the AR's flag, he/she blows for full-time right after giving the goal. The AR alerts the ref to the offside position of the goalscorer. What's the decision?

Goal stands.

How'd I do?

[Patrick Thistle]

Oh I hadn't seen you'd posted the answers already.

(Checks.) Hey, not bad.

[CY_Boaby]

Last Sunday I was asked to referee at my son's Under-10 home game at late notice as the usual chap couldn't make it. Having only previously referreed in-house games a couple of years ago, I was quite looking forward to it. And to get more parents involved we also get a parent from each team help run the line.

2-0 to the home team at half-time and the only call I had to make was when an away player raised his hand and touched the ball away in his own penalty box as it has heading towards his goal - so I gave a penalty and explained to the kid why I've given the penalty. So at half-time when i was getting a drink, the away parent running the line came over to me. I thought we were just going to have a jovial chat about the game so far, but no, he was furious. He said he may as well quit running the line as I was constantly ignoring him as for the first goal he said the ball had gone out for a goal kick but I ignored him. I never heard a peep from him, but he was claiming he was shouting over to get my attention but I gave the goal anyway. Then he said I should never have given the penalty as it will destroy the kid's self-esteem!

It was hard work listening to this guy, so I politely told him to bugger off and was glad to just get the 2nd half started. I made a point of looking out for him when it was a throw in etc, but the reason I didn't notice him in the 1st half was because he didn't actually run the line. Ball would go out for a throw by the halfway line, and he's down by the bloody corner flag just standing there. He and the other away team parents must have been openly criticising me in front of their kids, as when the kids returned for the 2nd half they were noticebly cheekier. And then the away parents would question just about every decision I made, even at the restart after a goal, they whinged when the home team kicked it forward - "You can't kick it forward!!" I was so tempted to shout over to them, "I've read the rules and you can kick it forward, now SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!".

But thankfully I kept my cool and ignored them. Reading imp's blog has certainly helped me appreciate the shit ref's have to deal with, but I have to admit I don't think I'm thick-skinned enough to put up with such arseholes on a regular basis. It was really hard work with this buffon as my "assistant", which took away the enjoyment of refereeing the game. I look forward to the return game to see who they have in charge.

[Simon G]

I feel your pain CY, and that's as a linesman.

Before my 12 year old gave up football a couple of months ago, I used to run the line on a weekly basis and the amount of grief I used to get off my own side was sometimes enough to make me want to jack it in. Fortunately, we have a lot of young refs (u18) in the Cheltenham league and criticism of them is pretty much scarce, although it doesn't stop managers trying to influence the ref. I'm definitely not thick-skinned enough to actually go into refereeing though - I learnt that when I nearly came to blows with one parent who wouldn't stop barracking me after I told the ref the ball didn't cross the line for what would have been an equaliser (it didn't even reach the line).