Futebol Brasileiro 2016

[cantagalo]

Those of you following the current political scene in Brazil may not be surprised to learn that club football is in a similar state of turmoil.

This year, clubs dissatisfied with the poor attendances and opposition in the State Championships, formed a breakaway competition variously called the Copa Sul-Minas-Rio or the Primeira Liga involving 12 of the larger clubs from the South and South East excluding Säo Paulo. Games were played alongside the State Championships and it was eventually won by Fluminense and although crowds remained small, it may force the CBF to do something next year to reduce the length of the State Championships.

Clubs in the North East already have the relatively popular Copa do Nordeste which is well-established and attracts decent crowds. This year the winners Santa Cruz earned a place in the Copa Sul Americana, the first time they have qualified for a continental competition. The standard isn't great but this is Brazilian football in the raw, far from the sanitised and expensive World Cup stadiums.

Here's highlights of the second leg of the final against Campinense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNVFyXQmZV4

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

Just to save myself from a nil thread...

The big story of the State Championships has been the success of the minnows Audax of Osasco in Säo Paulo. They've already beaten Palmeiras, thrashed São Paulo 4-1 and overcome Corinthians on penalties in the semi-final. In the first leg of the final they drew 1-1 at home to Santos and face the away leg next weekend.

The strange thing is that they've achieved this playing football that has amazed commentators. It's not often in Brazil these days that you see Barcelona style football, with high pressing, short-passing in tight situations, a goalkeeper who plays it out from the back and a considerable amount of individual flair. What's more, it's been achieved by a young manager Fernando Diniz, who has been given three years to develop his style of play - the tenure of the average Brazilian manager is about three months. You never know, this sort of thing may catch on.

Their exploits in the Paulista have qualified Audax to play in this year's Serie D but the team will have been broken up before then with big clubs signing their young talent. Hopefully, Diniz will be given a chance at a higher level - and more than 3 months to get results.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

So Audax just fell at the final hurdle, defeated 1-0 by Santos. However, with 67% possession and twice as many completed passes, they made Santos look like the underdogs and it was form a breakaway that Ricardo Oliveira scored the winner. Commentators are amazed at their 'futebol sem chutão' (football without big kicks) which says something about the state of the Brazilian game. I hope Fernando Diniz gets a chance at a Série A club but I'm not holding my breath.

Some predictable outcomes in the other main State Championships with titles for Vasco, Inter, Vitória and Santa Cruz but a surprise in Minas with América beating Atlético.

And there was some seriously, scary violence at the end of the CRB v CSA final in Alagoas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFYugvMcz2w

[danielmak]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

I watched both legs of the Vasco-Botafogo final. I thought both were entertaining, with some back and forth goals in the 2nd leg. Why did they change the name from the Rio State Championship? Did they include a broader area beyond Rio?

Also, I saw the various Flamengo-Fluminense state championship derbies, but could swear that there were also Flamengo-Vasco matches shown. Were these games not part of the Carioca (or whatever the former Rio tournament is now called)?

I hear Tim Vickery constantly rant about the waste that is the state championship system since it cuts into the roll out of the league play (i.e., there is no big build up because the championships end and then a week later the national leagues begin). But also because there are too many minnows. It does seem to me from a very uninformed position that this system needs to go. They'd be better off re-doing the Copa do Brasil (if this isn't how it's already done) whereby the first few rounds are played against locals in the states and then move to a more national cup after those early rounds. That could be interesting I guess.

It's interesting because the season in Brazil is as long as other CONMEBOL leagues but they've not gone with the semester system. I have not really been a fan of that semester system but am starting to see things in a new light because I like that there are more chances for more teams to win (harder for one team to rule the roost for too long). With that said, I am not a big fan of what we're seeing in Mexico or Colombia where every semester ends with a playoff. Winning the league for that semester is basically meaningless in Colombia because the playoff winners earn the Libertadores spots. The only value is if the semester winners can secure the best overall record. Last year Junior was robbed; they had a great run but won neither playoff and had the 2nd or 3rd best overall record. They would have been a much better entrant in the Libertadores than Deportivo Cali.

Anyway, I'll see if I can pop into this thread from time to time with an (ill-informed) opinion.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

The Rio State Championship has always been called the Carioca and it's just teams from the State of RJ. The tournament is basically set up to ensure that the big 4 reach the semi-final knock-out stage and the weakness of the opposition ensures that this invariably happens. I've concentrated on the Paulista this season because the standard is generally higher and because of the Audax story.

This season it's hit an all-time low as even crowds for for the big four's games have been abysmal, partly due to the unavailability of the Maracanã (until the final) and Botafogo's ground which is the Olympic athletics stadium.

You won't go far wrong if you listen to Tim Vickery. The 27 state federations control the CBF and resist any proposals for change. As I mentioned earlier, these new parallel tournaments could prove to be the catalyst for change.

I like the Copa do Brasil. It's started already and there are plenty of very small teams who get their chance against bigger clubs. I'm not completely comfortable with Libertadores clubs entering at a later stage but that, and the prospect of a Libertadores place for the winners, makes it a very competitive tournament.

[steveeeeeeeee]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

How long do you think Paulo Bento will last at Cruzeiro, cantagalo? My wife thinks none of the players will understand him. Personally, I never have a problem understanding Bento as he repeats everything he says. I've heard Mina's Gerais is the most Portuguese of Brazilian states, I hope he adapts quickly and does well.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

As far as the language is concerned, I wouldn't be too worried. Atlético and São Paulo both have Spanish speaking managers and I haven't heard it raised as an issue. Having said that, my Brazilian Portuguese isn't too bad but I do have a lot of difficulty with Portuguese Portuguese!

I'm surprised that Cruzeiro have appointed a European and one with such an impressive CV. I admire his bravery in accepting the job. His main problem will be whether he gets the time to show what he can do. He'll be Cruzeiro's fourth manager in the year since they sacked Marcelo Oliveira who had just led them to consecutive league titles.

Also Cruzeiro's squad looks the weakest it's been in some time and has been made worse by a long injury list. They performed poorly in the State Championship which cost Deivid his job and they made a less than auspicious league debut last night, losing to a poor Coritiba side and ending up with nine men. He's going to have his work cut out there but I wish him luck as Brazilian football desperately needs new ideas and some fresh managerial faces.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

Well, that was a thoroughly miserable start to the season.

Three goalless draws, five matches decided by a single goal and an average of just 1.4 goals per game. Globo's summary of Corinthians 0 Grêmio 0 ('Sweat yes, goals no') was quite apt.

There were only two games where anything of much note happened. Santa Cruz marked their long climb back from Série D with a 4-1 thrashing of Vitória including two goals from Grafite (remember him?). And Palmeiras beat Atlético-PR 4-0 with Gabriel Jesus, a name to watch this season, scoring twice.

[Borracho]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

cantagalo wrote: As far as the language is concerned, I wouldn't be too worried. Atlético and São Paulo both have Spanish speaking managers and I haven't heard it raised as an issue. Having said that, my Brazilian Portuguese isn't too bad but I do have a lot of difficulty with Portuguese Portuguese!

I assume all Brazilian children have to learn Spanish in school, given that the place is entirely surrounded by countries which speak it?

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

Surprisingly, they don't. The main foreign language taught in state secondary schools is English with only a small number teaching Spanish or French.

The public education system is underfunded, low-achieving and beset by social and regional inequalities. It is generally only a minority of private school students who have decent language skills. Nonetheless, I don't think steveeeee should be too concerned about Paulo Bento having difficulty making himself understood.

[Borracho]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

cantagalo wrote: Surprisingly, they don't. The main foreign language taught in state secondary schools is English with only a small number teaching Spanish or French.

That's incredible on the face of it. And yet, in a curious way, it doesn't really surprise me at all.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

Borracho wrote:

Surprisingly, they don't. The main foreign language taught in state secondary schools is English with only a small number teaching Spanish or French.

That's incredible on the face of it. And yet, in a curious way, it doesn't really surprise me at all.

I often find myself using words to that effect in Brazil.

[danielmak]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

I watched Corinthians-Gremio. The first half was interesting once Gremio got going. Corinithians looked dreadful. But after Gremio missed some chances in the first half, they seemed to be cool with the 0-0. I only caught the last few minutes o the first half of the Palmeiras match but switched to the DVR to watch Argentine league matches since they're coming down to the end and it's a tight race in one of the zones.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

I really ought to start betting on some of these games. A 0-0 was really quite predictable for Corinthians-Grêmio.

Corinthians fans have been protesting about their failures in the Paulista and the Libertadores but Tite is probably the only manager in Brazil who is currently unsackable. He's the longest serving manager and consistently produces winning teams even if it isn't exactly champagne football. And having sold half his title-winning team to China, the directors can't really complain.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

A couple of relatively exciting games this weekend with Vitória's 3-2, er, victory over Corinthians and 10 man Inter's 2-1 win at São Paulo catching the eye.

A game that provided minimal entertainment was Grêmio's 1-0 win against Flamengo. It would be fair to say that Flamengo fans are less than happy. Failure in both the Primeira Liga and the Carioca was followed by an embarrassing Copa do Brasil exit last Wednesday to Série C's Fortaleza. It is a year since Peruvian striker Guerrero joined to great acclaim and at considerable expense. His booking after 8 minutes yesterday consolidated his record of more cards (15 yellow, 1 red) than goals (13).

[danielmak]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

I watched Flu-Santa Cruz. The game was mostly entertaining amidst some very poor refereeing decisions. Flu scored a goal where there were certainly legitimate calls for an offside. Then Santa Cruz was awarded a penalty when Grafite (I think it was him) fell over after missing the ball. This call was crazy. The game ended 2-2 and was about right in terms of overall play. Flu did score an excellent free kick and Santa Cruz scored a beautifully worked goal from some quick, tight passing. Really it should have been 1-1 with some other chances for both sides.

Cantagalo: I thought Flu played in the Maracana. Am I misinformed about that or is it a case when they only play there for derby matches? And who is your side in Brasil?

[steveeeeeeeee]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

I'm not cantagalo, but my Brazilian team is Fluminense. It's the tricolour kit plus the only season I really followed Brazilian football they were on fire: I really loved Thiago Neves.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

danielmak wrote: I watched Flu-Santa Cruz. The game was mostly entertaining amidst some very poor refereeing decisions. Flu scored a goal where there were certainly legitimate calls for an offside. Then Santa Cruz was awarded a penalty when Grafite (I think it was him) fell over after missing the ball. This call was crazy.

Cantagalo: I thought Flu played in the Maracana. Am I misinformed about that or is it a case when they only play there for derby matches? And who is your side in Brasil?

Yes, the Grafite penalty was a ridiculous decision.

Flu and Flamengo usually play their home games at the Maracanã (although Flamengo sometimes stage games in the otherwise unused WC stadia in Manaus and Brasilia) but it is out of action as the Olympics opening and closing ceremonies are being held there. Botafogo are also affected as their stadium is the venue for the Olympic athletics. The ramshackle old stadium you saw is in Volta Redonda, a steel town 50 miles outside Rio so the only senior football to be seen in the city of Rio at the moment is at Vasco's São Januário.

I don't have a Brazilian team as such, though I'll give moral support to whomever I'm watching a match with. My footballing emotional energy remains invested in Brentford.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

steveeeeeeeee wrote: I'm not cantagalo, but my Brazilian team is Fluminense. It's the tricolour kit plus the only season I really followed Brazilian football they were on fire: I really loved Thiago Neves.

Yes, it's a lovely shirt.

Thiago Neves is now in the UAE playing for Al Jazira - one of the ever-growing exodus of decent quality players to China or the Middle East.

Paulo Bento had a bit of shock in his first game going 2-0 down to Figueirense but they fought back for a draw. Cruzeiro's injury problems are such that I only recognised about half the players in their team.

[danielmak]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

That stadium did look really small. And I was a bit surprised that from the vantage point of TV cameras that it wasn't full. I'd assume that having a club the size of Flu would be a draw. But I do know from my time listening to World Football Phone-in that ticket prices are out of whack with the current Brazilian economy.

Looks like there are some interesting midweek matches this week. Hopefully I'll have time to watch a couple of them with the Libertadores on hiatus.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

Santa Cruz = Leicester?

Grafite = Jamie Vardy?

Well I don't know about that but their 4-1 thrashing of Cruzeiro consolidated their position at the top of the league and Grafite took his total to 6 goals in three games. Cruzeiro had more chances but were destroyed on the break Leicester-style by some ruthless finishing.

Nonetheless, it's quite an indictment of Brazilian club football that its top home-grown strikers are old lags like Fred (32), Ricardo Oliveira (36) and Grafite (37).

[Borracho]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

Is Fred still able to play in the league without getting lynched? I had thought he had been chased into exile after the 2014 World Cup.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

He is still something of a figure of fun (you might want to do a meme search for 'Fred' and 'traffic cone'). No-one is suggesting an international recall but at club level he continues to be quite effective. In that World Cup year he was top scorer in the Brasileiro, though he missed a lot of last year through injuries. 2015's top scorers were Ricardo Oliveira followed by Wagner Love!

Further evidence of the dearth of Brazilian number 9s can be found in Dunga's squad for the upcoming Copa America. He has persevered with Hulk and chosen Jonas who is 32. He seems to be banging in goals for Benfica but I was less than impressed with him when he was playing in Brazil. Maybe steveeeee can give us an update on his form.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

Santa Cruz were held to a draw at Chapecoense and were replaced at the top by Porto Alegre in the form of Grêmio who had a comfortable win over Coritiba and Inter who beat a Santos team missing Lucas Lima and Gabriel (or as he cringingly calls himself 'Gabigol') on international duty.

Corinthians are ominously climbing the table with a 2-0 win at Sport and goal of the day by Marquinhos Gabriel and São Paulo beat Palmeiras thanks to a header from Ganso.

And of course there was all the passion and excitement of a Carioca clássico between Botafogo and Fluminense. Well, not exactly. A 1-0 win for Flu, a goal for Fred and a crowd of ........4550.

[cantagalo]

Futebol Brasileiro 2016

A shock for Santa Cruz in the Pernambucano clássico as they went down 1-0 to bottom of the league Sport - a scoreline that could have been much more embarrassing.

There were two exciting 4-3 games, the most significant possibly being Palmeiras beating Grêmio, both of whom should be challenging for a Libertadores place. Chapecoense's 4-3 win at Coritiba was notable for a hat-trick from Bruno Rangel and the resignation of Coritiba's Gilson Kleina - the third managerial change in five rounds of the Brasileiro (I've long since lost count of the number since the start of the year).

Steveeeeee will be pleased to hear that Paulo Bento achieved his first win for Cruzeiro thanks to a goal from the impressive Élber. He shouldn't get too excited though - it was against Botafogo.