Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

[Sean of the Shed]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

There are plenty of clubs with entitled fans, usually ones that have managed periods of success at some stage and expect the club to be able to maintain that at all costs. See Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool
It doesn't even have to be recent either. Here in the Midlands you get it, usually from Villa fans and even Wolves.

[Etienne]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

I'd quite like to do a big survey on what club supporters think is the 'natural level' for their team. My suspicion is that there would be about 30 that think it is the top tier, and another 30 in the second, with very few league teams thinking that they are performing at or above it. Given that only a finite number of these teams can be at that level, it's a recipe for general dissatisfaction.

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

Sure, like everyone's an above-average driver and so on.

I find a useful reality check is to look at where your club ranks in terms of average gates. Last time I checked, Leeds ranked below Norwich, ffs, at a time when we were both in the Championship, which was a big shock considering the relative sizes of the two cities. I suppose Leeds must be more a city of high culture than of football.

[Kevin S]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

Pah, you don't even have a castle.

I guess it might have more to do with the fact that Norwich have finished above Leeds in every season for the last ten, so for the attendance to now reflect Norwich's superiority as well is fair enough really.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

I suppose the problem comes with having a taste of the wine when you used to be happy with ale. Blackburn were second division (and occasionally lower) for almost all of the 1950s, half the 60s, the 70s and the 80s, until their promotion and trophy-winning years in the 90s and 00s. Now they're back in the second division, it's hard to argue that isn't their 'level', but I doubt their fans would agree. And as for Wigan, back in the third tier, it seems odd given that they won the Cup just a few years ago, but that's where they were for most of their first twenty years in the league, before Dave Whelan came along.

[dalliance]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

How much is the Leeds perception of high culture based on having a Harvey Nicols?

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

ha ha, we have that too. Was thinking more Opera North and such like.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

dalliance wrote: How much is the Leeds perception of high culture based on having a Harvey Nicols?

"Don't talk to me about culture. I've been to Leeds."

[garcia]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

I'm beginning to think the Premier League's default setting of high-tempo, physically-draining football isn't cultural but something that... just happens.

it all comes back to the weather.

1) the winds in britain are much higher relative to continental europe. as klopp was saying last week, this encourages a 'simpler' style of play, i.e. less intricate passing, more running after high balls and crashing into each other. = EXCITEMENT

2) the neverending rain means all the stands have to be roofed, which encourages the design of more compact stadiums, which brings the crowd closer to the pitch.

3) britain's northerly latitude puts it in the european beer belt, so everyone's usually at least half-pissed and roaring.

[Jah Womble]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

G-Man wrote: Whoah there, big boy. EIM has been pretty blunt in his view of these Man Utd fans. You cannot ascribe their attitude to him by loose association. Less so after he excluded Spurs fans on this board from his general observation.

I was merely reacting - playfully - to the comment about Spurs fans somehow being 'entitled', which is laughable, frankly. We may be many things, but that ain't one of them - pickings have been so slim at The Lane over the past quarter-century that none of us would be that deluded.

His and the previous posters' suggestion that the current side is decent (and c***-free) is, of course, completely correct.

[garcia]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

remember that lots of rain and little sunshine equals bad pitches, which militate against passing football. but the main thing the wind does is introduce an element of uncertainty into every pass. the more passes, the greater the influence of error, so high winds favour a style that involves fewer passes. it's certainly not an original point by klopp, gianluca vialli for one talked about it in a book a few years back.

as to the specific point regarding long balls, ask yourself whether it's easier to defend a long ball in a howling gale. i think the unpredictability of the ball's movement favours the attacking side.

[Borracho]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

Not sure the rule holds fast to be honest. There's nowhere in Europe with weather as horrible as Russia, but their football has always been based around a short-passing game.

The Netherlands have a similar climate to southern England and they aren't exactly a nation of long-ball merchants either.

[garcia]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

There's nowhere in Europe with weather as horrible as Russia, but their football has always been based around a short-passing game.

we're not talking about "horrible" weather, whatever that is. we're talking about windy weather and you'll find it's a lot windier out by the atlantic than it is in european russia.

as for the netherlands, it depends which part of the netherlands you're talking about. dirk kuyt, for instance, is from katwijk, which is a seaside town in holland's dune belt. i remember simon kuper writing about playing kids' football in katwijk and being kicked around by big strong dirk kuyt-like players who were at home in the north sea gales.

as to why scotland developed the passing game in the late 19th century despite the windy weather, it's because the footballs weighed too much for a skilled player to boot much more than 10-15 yards.

[Patrick Thistle]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

They developed the passing game when the usual thing was to just dribble it.

The long ball game came later. And could be seen as an extension of the passing game.

[Sam]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

Carnivorous Vulgaris wrote:

I'm beginning to think the Premier League's default setting of high-tempo, physically-draining football isn't cultural but something that... just happens.

it all comes back to the weather.

1) the winds in britain are much higher relative to continental europe. as klopp was saying last week, this encourages a 'simpler' style of play, i.e. less intricate passing, more running after high balls and crashing into each other. = EXCITEMENT

2) the neverending rain means all the stands have to be roofed, which encourages the design of more compact stadiums, which brings the crowd closer to the pitch.

3) britain's northerly latitude puts it in the european beer belt, so everyone's usually at least half-pissed and roaring.

I agree about 2) and 3) but not so sure about 1)

The wind is stronger in Britain than in most of Europe, true, but wouldn't strong winds imply that a shorter passing game is better? Playing a long, high ball in a strong wind suggests to me that that ball stands a fair chance of being blown off-course and ending up nowhere near where you intended it to land. Much better to play a short pass along the turf to somebody nearby.

I once went to a game at Boundary Park. We sat almost on the halfway line, so had a great view of one goal kick in particular which got more or less level with where we were sitting before getting caught by the wind and blown back, flying narrowly over the crossbar of the goalkeeper who'd just kicked it. I suppose if it had been slightly lower and he'd had to tip it over or catch it to prevent a goal, it would have required a retake for failing to play the ball out of the box - or an indirect free kick to the other team, maybe?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Van de Gaal Degenerator - TV Football January 2nd

the mean wind speed in galway is probably artificially low because the wind is often blowing from two opposite directions at the same time.