Welsh Football (domestic) thread

[Patrick Thistle]

I think it was meant to start this coming season.

I don't see how TNS can "win" this court case. Best case scenario for them is they get given the Champions League place but they can't be champions and everyone will hate them even more.

[Uros Predic]

I've seen a lot of retweets from clubs this week saying that they have been awarded Tier Three licences, so I guess it's 20-21.

Yeah, there's a breakdown on Wikipedia of all the clubs that have applied.

93 applicants in total, although six have already been placed in the second tier, so 87 clubs applying for 64 places. Looking at the geographical split, could be a fair few clubs in the south that are currently tier four getting a promotion.

[Ray de Galles]

I think it was meant to start this coming season.

I don't see how TNS can "win" this court case. Best case scenario for them is they get given the Champions League place but they can't be champions and everyone will hate them even more.

If they can't win the case how could they be awarded the CL place?

[Uros Predic]

On, and here from the FAW site is the list of teams awarded the tier 3 certification

Probably should've checked there first.

(I must've missed out teams applying from tier 5, and those dropping from tier 2 on my numbers above)

[Ray de Galles]

I had been wondering if Porthcawl had applied, they were leading the South Wales Alliance Premier prior to lockdown (though dropped to third in the final table under PPG).

I wonder why and when they withdrew their application, their chairman and driving force died a month ago and I hope it's not related to that.

[Uros Predic]

Probably a case of not feeling they would be able to do the required ground upgrading work in time. Likely to be a few clubs in that boat with sponsors facing uncertain futures at present.

[elguapo4]

If they can't win the case how could they be awarded the CL place?

The European places are generally in the gift of the FA of each country. In theory, the English FA could award a champions league place to Accrington Stanley if they wished. This is so that they can refuse a side who win the league through dodgy practice. So ,as far as I know, the FAW can decide who goes to Europe.

[Ray de Galles]

Yes, of course, but why would they if CPD Franchise have no case?

[elguapo4]

I'm sorry Ray, I haven't seen the league tables, were they top when the league was suspended ?

[Kowalski]

On, and here from the FAW site is the list of teams awarded the tier 3 certification

Probably should've checked there first.

(I must've missed out teams applying from tier 5, and those dropping from tier 2 on my numbers above)

We applied but failed due to a lack of public toilets. We'll appeal but it might not change much as according to my reliable source 77 clubs have been awarded Tier 3 Certification and."Sporting Merit" will be used to allocate the 64 places.

One factor against us is that the FAW will probably have to enlarge the the catchment areas of the Tier 3 leagues because there are more clubs from south / mid Wales and fewer from the north west Wales.

It'll be a nice feather in our collective caps if we gain Tier 3 Certification but to be honest I'll be slightly relieved if we may not gain a place in Tier 3. I don't really want to be promoted two divisions in one go as it doesn't feel right and it will raise the hackles of other clubs.

I'm looking forward to a Tier 4 adventure (subject to promotion of course) to see where that takes us.

[Ray de Galles]

I'm sorry Ray, I haven't seen the league tables, were they top when the league was suspended ?

No, Connah's Quay Nomads were four points clear having played the same number of games.

[elguapo4]

Then they don't have a leg to stand on. Believe me ,we played TNS in Europe, and while they beat us fair and square on the pitch, off it,they were apparently one of the most unpleasant clubs we've ever dealt with.

[Patrick Thistle]

I'm sorry Ray, I haven't seen the league tables, were they top when the league was suspended ?

They were 4 points behind Connahs Quay when the league was stopped and were given 2nd place on a PPG basis. Their owner kicked off saying that because they were top at the end of phase 1 they should be crowned champions.

I put "win" in quote marks because even if they did win the CL place back the fall out would be toxic. But graciousness in defeat isn't something you'd associate with them.

[Uros Predic]

We applied but failed due to a lack of public toilets. We'll appeal but it might not change much as according to my reliable source 77 clubs have been awarded Tier 3 Certification and."Sporting Merit" will be used to allocate the 64 places.

One factor against us is that the FAW will probably have to enlarge the the catchment areas of the Tier 3 leagues because there are more clubs from south / mid Wales and fewer from the north west Wales.

Yeah, I just had a look through the teams awarded the certification and their final league placings... and both north and south are very skewed towards the border (particularly the north once you add in mid Wales sides).

My best guess is something approaching the following (assuming I have the correct Goytre), but the east west split is really hard to determine for the north in particular...

NORTH WEST

Blaenau Amateurs
Bow Street
Caersws
Denbigh Town
Dolgellau AAA
Dyffryn Nantlle Vale
Holyhead Hotspur
Kerry
Llandudno Albion
Llanidloes Town
Llanrwst United
Llanuwchllyn
Machynlleth
Penparcau
Porthmadog
Y Felinheli


NORTH EAST

Brymbo
Cefn Albion
Chirk AAA
Holywell Town
Llay Welfare
Mold Alexandra
Penycae
Rhostyllen
Rhydymwyn
Hawarden Rangers
Welshpool Town
Montgomery Town
Four Crosses
Carno Berriew
Corwen
Llanfair United

SOUTH EAST

Aberbargoed Buds
Abergavenny Town
Caldicot Town
Caerau Ely
Cardiff Corinthians
Chepstow Town
Croesyceiliog
Dinas Powys
Goytre
Monmouth Town
Newport City
Risca United
STM Sports
Tredegar Town
Treowen Stars
Trethomas Bluebirds


SOUTH WEST

Aberdare Town
AFC Llwydcoed
AFC Porth
Baglan Dragons
Builth Wells
Cwmamman United
Garden Village
Llandrindod Wells
Penydarren BGC
Penrhiwceiber Rangers
Pontardawe Town
Pontyclun
Ton Pentre
Treharris Athletic
West End
Ynysygerwn

[Patrick Thistle]

The European places are generally in the gift of the FA of each country. .... So ,as far as I know, the FAW can decide who goes to Europe.

The FAW has already decided on a ppg basis. Barry benefitted, being 4th, as there are no cup winners this year so the cup place went to the 4th placed team.

[Patrick Thistle]

Have STM been given a tier 3 status? They don't have a ground.

[Gangster Octopus]

assuming I have the correct Goytre

How often have I heard that phrase...

[Kowalski]

Quite a few clubs without their own ground have passed the Tier 3 process; e.g. Monmouth Town at Goytre, Risca United & Trethomas Bluebirds at CSE, Ystrad Mynach, West End & Ynysygerwn at Llandarcy Academy of Sport, Llanuwchllyn at Bala, Llandudno Albion at Llandudno's Maesdu Park and Cefn Albion at Cefn Druids.

Like all league reorganisations there are two sides to this Tier 3 Process. On one side there's now a logical pathway of progression for "forward thinking" clubs that will raise the standard of facilities. On the other side there's the cost of implementing any guidelines and the benign universalism of the rules. This time the benign universalism has not only demoted historic clubs like Llanberis and Llanrug from Tier 3 it forces smaller clubs to conform to rules that don't really apply to them from a logical perspective. For example my wife's cousin is involved with Llanefydd and if they want to progress to Tier 3 they will need to install more seats than there are residents in their village. A pathway of progression quickly becomes a glass ceiling.

Thinking about the rise of the "forward thinking clubs" it's a touch ironic that those behind the club licensing system also aspire to help Welsh football clubs "grow the game". Over the last decade the licensing system has demoted quite a few WPL clubs with sizeable followings (in a relative sense of course), or potential sizeable followings (in a relative sense of course). I'm sure everything looks fine to UEFA because the WPL is full of clubs that have designated people in all of the relevant infrastructure positions but doesn't seem to help the crowds throng or make the heart sing. (It goes without saying that all demotions were justified for one reason or another).

[Patrick Thistle]

I might be wrong, but those other clubs are playing at football grounds, aren't they? Last time I went to STM they were playing on a caged off part of Cardiff University's sports fields. A little box for spectators and no other facilities. (I used the loo in the changing room building.)

I'll go and check if STM have moved.

[Uros Predic]

A further seven clubs have successfully appealed and been awarded tier 3 status, including Penmaenmawr Phoenix and Kowalski's Bangor 1876

Details here

[Kowalski]

They announced the make up of Tier 3 today. As Uroš wrote earlier in theory Wales has been split into 4 quadrants, and the northern leagues are still named "North-West' and "North-East", but as this map shows, the split in north Wales appears to be more north-south than east-west.

We're not sure when we'll hear the announcements about the leagues in Tiers 4 and 5 because they're still administered by the area associations.

[Diable Rouge]

So what division will CPD Y Rhyl be playing in for the coming season?

[Patrick Thistle]

Helped out at a clean up at my local South Wales Alliance club's pitch this morning. Picked up 6 bags of rubbish from around the dug outs.

There was some discussion about the new Tier 3 places and that there was no room in there for Bridgend Street, who look likely to be dropped into a lower tier. In other news Grange Quins are apparently returning to life in some form or other. No idea when the season will actually start.

[Kowalski]

So what division will CPD Y Rhyl be playing in for the coming season?

I've heard Tier 4 mentioned but you never know.

[Patrick Thistle]

https://twitter.com/ffwtbol/status/1282571426537656321?s=19