Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

[ian.64]

"About Juventus? Why are you asking me? Why are you asking someone on the Liverpool side? Juventus made amends very soon. Ask them ... Jamie I'm helping you pay your mortgage. People who want my views pay."

His words fail him as they do me.

[torres]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

He's been at this for a good few years now.

Cunt.

[Satchmo Distel]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

The article in the OP was from 2005. Neal helped Paul Wilson "pay his mortgage" in 2010 and I assume was paid for this:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2010/may/28/heysel-disaster-25th-anniversary

[RobM]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

I'm finding that a bit difficult to take in.

What exactly is happening there?

[Beatle Simon]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

I've got a feeling that this has been posted on OTF before.
But reading through it again, I find the accounts of Otello Lorentini, Andrea Lorentini and Dave Thomas very moving.

[ursus arctos]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

Yes, there was a rather long thread on it ten years ago

Still retains its ability to stop you in your tracks, though.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

And the last one from Bill Sergeant, Detective Chief Inspector, Merseyside police filled with shit. What he says doesn't add up at all with what everyone above him says.

[Toby Gymshorts]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

It's been posted several times, but it doesn't hurt to remind yourself exactly how much of an arsehole the man is.

[Satchmo Distel]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

Full BBC broadcast from the night. Very uncomfortable but important cultural history. It seems odd in retrosepct that they did not go straight to a proper news programme rather than allowing Jimmy Hill, Terry Venables and Graeme Souness to flounder. OTOH Barry Davies is amazingly good in the circumstances, giving an immediate eyewitness account only a few minutes after the wall collapsed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCKeP7rJZSI

[Antepli Ejderha]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

Paolo Rossi:

How difficult was it to play in the game? Well, the players were not aware of the true dimensions of the disaster. Some people said there was only one person dead and, really, we did not have any comprehensive information . It was only after the game that we were told the awful truth. We had been forced to play. We had no choice. But I repeat, we had not been informed.

I thought the players were aware of what had happened but were forced to play. Yet some of the other reports say they clearly knew.

[Satchmo Distel]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

If today's social media had existed in 1985, I wonder if the violence would have escalated even further and the match definitely could not have taken place.

But again, look at how the BBC covered this on Youtube. It seems disagraceful, even by 1985 standards, that the Beeb allowed Hill and Venables to witter on ignorantly about national service and tougher penalties for a full 10-15 minutes. I'm sure that could not happen now but still, it's shocking.

[Borracho]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

Crap defender, shite human being.

[Raynor]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

christ, someone stick 2 50p coins in this guys eyes and shut him up. nobody should try talk to him ever again

[Antepli Ejderha]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

Are these still his views or those of ten years ago? An awful human being.

[AMMS]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

satchmo76 wrote: If today's social media had existed in 1985, I wonder if the violence would have escalated even further and the match definitely could not have taken place.

But again, look at how the BBC covered this on Youtube. It seems disagraceful, even by 1985 standards, that the Beeb allowed Hill and Venables to witter on ignorantly about national service and tougher penalties for a full 10-15 minutes. I'm sure that could not happen now but still, it's shocking.

I think it's important to remember just how unthinkable this was at the time though. I remember the night well, I was at Kirkintilloch Rob Roy's ground watching a friend take part in a local cup final. There was a TV in the club house and someone told us the European Cup Final had been delayed by a riot and loads of people had been killed. We didn't believe him, indeed we mocked him. It was quite literally unbelievable.

I can well understand why the BBC were paralysed by it, the enormity of it is still difficult to take it.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

I remember the game as well. I was sat watching it live and although it was right there in front of me I couldn't comprehend what was going on. the closest I'd seen was some brief clips on sports news occasionally from games in N.Ireland and Scotland where fans were punching it out on the pitch.

I don't remember a thing from the game. I watched it and was concentrated on the play itself but thoughts where "what he fuck just happened, what have I just seen!?"

Only afterwards did I (and most I spoke to said they also thought of it only afterwards) realise that the games should not have been played.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

I remember the sheer and utter sense of shock that people had actually died. I mean we'd kind of become immunized to English fans "getting into trouble" abroad - from Leeds at the 1975 final ten years before, to Man United fans in St Etienne that earnt them their home game ban, to the England fans being tear-gassed at Euro '80. Liverpool fans had a good reputation, but only because the journalists didn't follow them around the streets when they were smashing up shops and nicking stuff in Paris and Rome.

No-one was prepared for Heysel. Clearly not the authorities over there, or the BBC. Despite all the "disaster waiting to happen" pointers.

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

Antepli Ejderha wrote: Paolo Rossi:

How difficult was it to play in the game? Well, the players were not aware of the true dimensions of the disaster. Some people said there was only one person dead and, really, we did not have any comprehensive information . It was only after the game that we were told the awful truth. We had been forced to play. We had no choice. But I repeat, we had not been informed.

I thought the players were aware of what had happened but were forced to play. Yet some of the other reports say they clearly knew.

The BBC link shows that a few of the Juventus players came out to speak to the fans in that section. I'd be very surprised if they hadn't been told of the extent of the disaster.

[ursus arctos]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

The Juve players who have spoken about this have been pretty much in line with Rossi. There were rumours (as there always are), but there was nothing definitive.

[Satchmo Distel]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

Tacconi is quoted that they didn't know if it was 1 or a hundred dead.

http://www.liberoquotidiano.it/news/sport/11794524/Strage-Heysel--Stefano-Tacconi-.html

He does say, however, that their changing room was being used to treat the injured and the Juve players played as if in a trance.

OTOH Lawrenson says all the Liverpool players knew because their changing room was near the wall.

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-05/29/heysel-stadium-disaster-30-anniversary

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

satchmo76 wrote: Full BBC broadcast from the night. Very uncomfortable but important cultural history. It seems odd in retrosepct that they did not go straight to a proper news programme rather than allowing Jimmy Hill, Terry Venables and Graeme Souness to flounder. OTOH Barry Davies is amazingly good in the circumstances, giving an immediate eyewitness account only a few minutes after the wall collapsed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCKeP7rJZSI

You are spot on about Barry Davies. This is an amazing piece of commentary given the fact he is commentating on something a football commentator should never have to.

[Cal Alamein]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

I've never seen this English transmission until today. At the time I was in Nice, France at the beginning of a 2-month Eurail trip w/ a couple of friends. We were settled in a simple restaurant that had a television showing the match and w/ little knowledge of French had no specifics of what the hell was going on. The owner came by our table and the only word I understood was "mort," and I was blown away that the match actually went on. We watched up to half-time and then left. The next day I scanned a UK paper to see the full details.

I'm now past Barry Davies superb commentary and have zero desire to watch any more.

[Satchmo Distel]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

Thatcher's response to journalists:

"Do we let the game die, or do we have a go at saving it?"

"She bracketed the football violence with that on the picket lines and in Northern Ireland. She said that the violence in the young was a "disease of a prosperous society." There were young people with more money than the previous generation but whose sense of responsibility had not developed."

http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/jun/01/archive-sports-writers-brief-thatcher-1985

[Antepli Ejderha]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

Geoffrey de Ste. Croix wrote:

Full BBC broadcast from the night. Very uncomfortable but important cultural history. It seems odd in retrosepct that they did not go straight to a proper news programme rather than allowing Jimmy Hill, Terry Venables and Graeme Souness to flounder. OTOH Barry Davies is amazingly good in the circumstances, giving an immediate eyewitness account only a few minutes after the wall collapsed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCKeP7rJZSI

You are spot on about Barry Davies. This is an amazing piece of commentary given the fact he is commentating on something a football commentator should never have to.

Barry Davies was excellent, Bobby Charlton was also good. They struck a good balance between fact and opinion.

In their commentary they noted the deaths, the behaviour and also how badly policed it was. The reports that 15 people had died were known at that time, how could the game have possibly gone ahead?

[Satchmo Distel]

Phil Neal's Considered Reflections On Heysel.

Barry Davies says near the end that it was the only possible decision due to the need to calm down the crowd. I think it would have better if somehow the teams could have agreed to play it as a friendly, but keep that knowledge from the crowd.

The BBC's decision to show the game is more questionable. They could have put a film on and shown a caption saying "Out of respect for the dead and injured, we are not showing the game."