The 1985 Valley Parade fire

[Kid A]

Was the fire deliberate?

A man who's written a book on it believes it wasn't an accident.

[garcia]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

that's some pattern of unlucky fires isn't it.

[hobbes]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Fucking hell.

[meregreen]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

That is an incredible story. Like something out of a David Peace novel.

[enzee199]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Shocking, truly shocking.

A lot of respect for Martin Fletcher.

[Janik]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

“I never believed it was an accident and I never will,” she told him. “I don’t think Stafford intended for people to die.

That's a very generous benefit of the doubt, given how she understands the situation. If the fire was deliberate then doing it when the place was empty would have been less threatening to life, wouldn't it?

[tuckwat]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

According to Simon Inglis that stand was getting knocked down anyway after the match. So would that stand still have been insured?And if so would it have been on some kind of sliding scale?

[Hugh Fatbastard]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

I can't imagine he'd get away with so many fires without some inside connection.

As quoted, this many coincidences isn't a coincidence.

Hopefully at the end of the day someone will be around to stand and answer for this, though small consolation.

[Borracho]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

A certain very senior Irish politician used to do this all the time to various places that he owned. He's dead now, and hardly anybody in the country is aware of this side of him.

[Mumpo]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Hugh Fatbastard wrote: I can't imagine he'd get away with so many fires without some inside connection

Hmm. I wonder if there was anyone else of a dodgy disposition, with a network of even more dubious acquaintances, operating around the Bradford area during the timescale of the fires.

Nah.

[anton pulisov]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Green Calx wrote: A certain very senior Irish politician used to do this all the time to various places that he owned. He's dead now, and hardly anybody in the country is aware of this side of him.

Was he cremated?

edit: my apologies, bad taste

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

A certain very senior Irish politician used to do this all the time to various places that he owned. He's dead now, and hardly anybody in the country is aware of this side of him.

reading that I couldn't help thinking of Albert Reynolds. I always wondered how so many single row concrete block, And corrugated iron Dancehalls burned to the ground as the dancehall era wound down. He even lost a sausage factory in the liberties back in the day. The last fire in his petfood factory was a bit of a disaster for him though as that was a successful business.

[Central Rain]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Of course, a series of fires could also demonstrate a pattern of negligence as much as one of deliberate arson. At the moment this seems to raise more questions than it answers so I'll be interested to have a read of the whole book.

[Borracho]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Negligence would result in anything from one to three or four fires at the absolute most. After that, you would have to be a clown of unbelievable proportions for your business premises to keep burning down.

Surely, after the third time it happened, even the world's thickest fucker would twig that something was deeply wrong and get to the bottom of it. Eight fires?

[Janik]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Eight fires prior to Valley Parade.

Someone, somewhere in the world probably has been truly, genuinely unlucky and been the coincedental victim of nine fires. Maybe even more. But it starts to get rather suspicious if each fire happens at a financially convenient time.

Like some others I'm a little bemused that Insurance Company Actuaries didn't spot this and flag a problem. Less so that the police or press didn't, in the days before computer records.

[Central Rain]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Well even if some of the fires were deliberately set it wouldn't necessarily mean that all of them were. There clearly is evidence of negligence in any case (e.g. ignoring safety warnings). There also isn't much detail yet about whether these fires actually were similar (beyond being big and destructive).

Based on what I've read so far, I can't make my mind up. Like I said, it raises a lot of questions. How would he actually have gone about setting a fire in broad daylight, during the first half of a match in front of the biggest crowd of the season? Why would somebody choose such an obviously dangerous situation for a simple insurance job? Are his other business problems directly relevant to the issue? He wasn't the sole owner of the club (it was owned jointly with the significantly more successful Jack Tordoff, to whom he later sold his share), so anything coming from the insurance wouldn't necessarily help him there - particularly if the club itself was in dire need of funds.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Less so that the police or press didn't, in the days before computer records.

looking into my crystal ball, I have a vision, of a Man, A stone, and a Chisel.

[Antepli Ejderha]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Just read the three articles in the online Guardian and it seems pretty conclusive to me.

The story of how Martin Fletcher was the last person to escape from the back of the stand with his baseball cap melted into his head is horrific.

I have nothing but respect for him and what he has tried to prove in this book.

An amazing individual that has worked for 15 years to uncover the truth, currently his truth, but one that is compelling and will hopefully lead to a new, independent public inquiry.

[NHH]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Just spent 20 minutes reading a Bradford City forum and it makes me hate football and its fans. I biggest bunch of ingrate forelock tugging knuckle-dragging twats I've yet to see.

TLR version: Martin Fletcher is profiting on the back of the fire, there's no evidence, and Stafford saved the club twice.

[DCI Harry Batt]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Mumpo wrote:

I can't imagine he'd get away with so many fires without some inside connection

Hmm. I wonder if there was anyone else of a dodgy disposition, with a network of even more dubious acquaintances, operating around the Bradford area during the timescale of the fires.

Nah.

Who?

[Mr Beast]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Seems pretty damning to me.

I went on a fire safety course once and the Bradford fire was used vividly and upsettingly. The speed with which it took hold was terrifying.

[Toro Toro]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Who?

Now then, now then.

[DCI Harry Batt]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

Ah right. I was thinking "did Peter Sutcliffe have connections?".

[cantagalo]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

What astonishes me is the apparent lack of curiosity into Heginbotham's background. It seems that his record of having his businesses burned down was widely known in the local area. Surely someone must have tipped off journalists? Did they not think it was worth investigating?

And, given his record, why did insurance companies continue to insure him?

[Hugh Fatbastard]

The 1985 Valley Parade fire

NHH wrote: TLR version: Martin Fletcher is profiting on the back of the fire, there's no evidence, and Stafford saved the club twice.

most discussions with my wife tend to go like this.

People believe what they want to believe.