Just because I've left the US doesn't mean I can't still rag on MLS (while vehemently defending it against Europeans who rag on it from a position of ignorance). So to get us started this year, here's my take last week on those shameless charlatans ending in -ard who are coming to coin it in on the back of their bloated reputations as world class icons of midfield anonymity.
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
Paying over the odds for aging marquee players is pretty much the norm everywhere these days (for the leagues that can afford them). MLS is not an easy paycheck so they'll have to sweat a bit. Whatever else you might say about him, Stevie G is a solid player as far as work rate, and he has won a European Cup which is no small tubers. He doesn't strike me as selfish or up his own ass, so the team ought to benefit from his experience, knowledge, wisdom and so forth, etc. Of the two I'd rather have Lampard, though.
Judging them by England's lack of success is a bit unfair, I think, they've both been dependable and consistent club players. Stevie's probably got another couple of years in him and if he can help get us a place in the Club World Cup I'd be happy. No big deal to Europeans I know, but for us it's the world stage and counts for something. So yeah, I'd take him. We got some mileage out of Robbie Kean so why not Stevie boy. We could do much, much worse for the money. -
Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
Paul Gardner wrote "Just take a look at British soccer… the sad thing was [that even in 1975] they were playing dull, out-dated soccer."
OK, lets do that, shall we? I'll take as my magnifying glass what English clubs achieved in European Club Competitions either side of 1975.
European Cup
Winners '77 '78 '79 '80
Runners-up '75
Cup Winners Cup
Winners '70 '71
Runners-up '73 '76 '80
UEFA Cup
Winners '70 '71 '72 '73 '76
Runners-up '72 '74
Of all the periods to chose to rag on English football, the 70s is the most bizarre. That was the one time since WWII when the English League was genuinely the world's best. It had strength and depth (those European Final apperances were spread over nine different clubs). Whatever ones opinion of the aesthetics, the results put English football at the time on the cutting edge of the sport.
Similarly with Imp's assessment of Gerrard and Lampard. He is just as guilty of hyperbole on them as the English press he is ridiculing, just in the opposite direction.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
Color
Humor
Fetus
Tire
I declare this thread for American soccer blessed.
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
It was dull though. Successful but dull.
Watch some of those European Cup finals through today's eyes and, apart from Liverpool in 1977, they're not pretty.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
Thank you, Padre
Janik, to be fair to Gardner, I think his point was really directed at the British coaches who dominated the game over here at the time, and who were 1) not top tier and 2) much more men of the 60s (and even 50s) than of the 70s.
The Defoe/Altidore swap appears to be highly complex, with a great deal of uncertainty as to what Sunderland's outlay is and just how MLS are manipulating the allocation system to ensure that Jozy ends up in Toronto.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
LAFC had a somewhat insane job listing for their LAFC Supporters Relation person. They've edited it, removing the statements "You Can't Believe that LAFC will Pay You to do this job!!!" and "Can lead a meeting in a board room; can host a rave" and the requirement that the applicant can be a "millennial" (best to omit any explicit age discrimination in your job listing, I suppose)
edit: here's the original one, still posted on a different site
Good thing they changed it, I think there is really only one person who could have ticked all those boxes:Communications: Media/Public Relations Servicing
LAFC Brand Personality - Los Angeles Football Club (Los Angeles, CA)
The “LAFC Brand Personality” will be responsible for being the face of the brand, LAFC Originals Ambassador and Pied Piper of the Los Angeles Football Club. The position will be the ears of the organization, ready to listen and engage in conversation with LAFC fans, Originals and Supporters 24/7/365 .
Primary Duties:
Liaison to our LA Originals via regular communications, meetings and always listening Point person for LA Originals to ownership and senior management - identify best opportunities to leverage senior management and ownership.
Vet and validate candidates among LAFC Originals who may become the leaders of the LAFC supporter group.
Work in tandem on camera with the LAFC Documentarian to generate digital content for LAFC digital and social properties.
Identify the right individual(s) to ultimately lead the official LAFC supporter group.
Elicit input on all franchise matters from known and unknown LAFC Originals.
Facilitate and organize introductions and meetings between LAFC ownership and management with best candidates for leadership of LAFC supporter group.
Serve as “person on the street” and “in the pubs” spreading the gospel on behalf of LAFC.
Work side-by-side with LAFC staff to ensure that key moments are publicized in advance and/or shared via social media, mailing lists, website.
Qualifications :
• A Good Listener.
• Millennial.
• Multilingual.
• EA Sports "FIFA" Aficionado.
• MLS Fan.
• High Level of Futbol Acumen.
• Significant Playing Experience (ie a minimum of NCAA or other high level amateur club/organization) - You MUST have walked the walk, so you can talk the talk.
• Outgoing, Self-Starter, Articulate, Good Listener, Passionate, Creative, Born Leader, Chameleon-like (eg can lead a meeting in a board room; can host a rave).
• You Can't Believe LAFC will Pay You to do This Job!!!
• Did we mention - A Good Listener!
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
janik, there's also the 81, 82, and 84 european cups, and er, the 85 final. also the 81, and 84 uefa cups (and forest have some very legitimate complaints about 1983) and everton in the 85 CWC final. The dull moniker can definitely be levelled at them and by god those were terrible games of football, but dated? Then again he may have been looking at the invasion of Charles Hughes clones, who were not so readily found at the likes of liverpool, forest, villa, spurs, everton, or Ipswich.
as for the money paid to these players, I don't know if the size of their wage packets is likely to destabilize either club, particularly given the enormous wealth of anschutz, and abu dhabi.
the league would seem to be able to afford this sort of splurge on designated players, but it is largely able to do so by not paying a 'living wage' to most of their players. The LA galaxy pay around $50,000 a year to 19 of their players which means that a lot of their players have to have a second job, be it coaching kids or some other job. This makes the league kind of semi-professional, and that can't help.
While the signing of Gerrard is largely on the back of his reputation, I don't think that we can make any judgement on the rationale behind signing lampard, as it seems to be a FFP cheat on the part of Man City, and the MLS is just the place where they are doing it.
but while these players might have a lot of fame among premiership fans, I'm not sure what exactly they're going to add to the MLS. Lampard built a top career out of doing a relatively limited set of things, to an extraordinarily high level with mindbending consistency, but he's not going to be showing the MLs players anything new, or that they haven't seen to a certain degree from say clint dempsey.
Gerrard was the avatar for the high energy, impatient, individualistic hunt for the glorious moment. I don't think that there's much for MLS players to learn from gerrard either. If MLS teams are going to be throwing away money for old rope, they should be looking for old silk rope like Xavi hernandez, or andrea pirlo (though MLS may be more physically demanding than serie A at this stage) or xabi alonso, when he gets bored of dominating the bundesliga like it's an u-14 league
But that said, I can't help feeling that Imp is going a bit overboard on gerrard and lampard. They weren't just good club players overinflated by the English media. Lampard and gerrard finished second and third in the european footballer of the year in 2005, which quite frankly is fucking miraculous.
for instance, in the twenty five years between George Best's third place in 1971 and alan shearer's third place in 1996, only kenny dalglish (a really far distant 2nd in 1983,) and eric Cantona, (a really distant 3rd in 1993) troubled the podium of the european footballer of the year.
And while the golden shower did produce some abjectly dreadful football in international football, that's more a matter of the culture of the english national team than anything else. There were 10 english outfield players in the 2008 champions league final, but england didn't qualify for the european championships.
I think Elvis wilbury might be in for a bit of a disappointment when it comes to steven gerrard though.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
Hmm, if between the start of writing and finishing a post you head off to the shops, cook dinner, field a phone call or two, probably best to refresh the thread and see if say Ursus and GC have made one or two of the points you're hoping to touch on.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
The Forest/Anderlecht thing happened in 1984.
Everton-Rapid Vienna wasn't a bad game, and the result was great. For some reason I have a very strong memory of my nine-year-old self eating a He-Man bar of chocolate while watching it on TV.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
I'm sure I have it in my head that Liverpool signed Bruce Grobbelaar - to replace England keeper Ray Clemence - from Vancouver Whitecaps, or someone. So there must have been a reasonable appreciation of the NASL in those days. (Or maybe not, given it was Brucie).Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
man utd bought peter beardsley from vancouver whitecaps, and then sent him back.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
I strongly agree with all this. I don't think they're bad players - as I wrote, they're good English club players, but no more. They have been consistently built up down the years as international stars, and their major tournament record has proven again and again that they're not. If you look at the players who starred in the NASL, for example - Cruyff, Pele, Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Müller - they all performed at the absolute top of the world game. I think there's a perception in the US somewhat that the top of the world game is now represented by the English Premier League because that's what Fox Sports and NBC hype has been leading fans to believe the past few years in the interests of upping their subscriptions. And it's been a fad to follow an English team, so a lot of it's just marketing bollocks.The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: But while these players might have a lot of fame among premiership fans, I'm not sure what exactly they're going to add to MLS. Lampard built a top career out of doing a relatively limited set of things, to an extraordinarily high level with mindbending consistency, but he's not going to be showing the MLs players anything new, or that they haven't seen to a certain degree from say clint dempsey.
Gerrard was the avatar for the high energy, impatient, individualistic hunt for the glorious moment. I don't think that there's much for MLS players to learn from gerrard either. If MLS teams are going to be throwing away money for old rope, they should be looking for old silk rope like Xavi hernandez, or andrea pirlo (though MLS may be more physically demanding than serie A at this stage) or xabi alonso, when he gets bored of dominating the bundesliga like it's an u-14 league
I don't completely agree with Gardner, who often has a streak of extreme anti-Englishness in his columns, but I think what he says about the English over-rating their players is historically true. Lampard is a useful box-to-box player and goal scorer who reminds me a lot of Bryan Robson. And there was another player who was utterly over-rated (and let's add Ray fucking Wilkins to that), to the point where it was seen as an utter calamity for the England team in the 80s if he got injured (but it wasn't). Beckham and Rooney, suffer(ed) from the same unfounded expectations. It's not their fault, although in Gerrard's case I seem to remember he didn't exactly play down some garbage about him being the best player in the world at some point around the European Cup win. But when you look at the list of the greatest players of all time, among British players there's only George Best in the post-Matthews era who'd come close to a chance of appearing as an outfield player in a World All-Time XI, or even on its subs' bench.
So, to reiterate the point of the piece, which some of you seem to have ignored - the -ards are not bad players, and will do well in MLS, but they will not contribute anything to the development of US soccer, and from that point of view they are, on balance, a waste of money. Is that important? Not from a European point of view, but the only discussion that matters in the American game is the way forward because they started 100 years behind and are still obsessed with catching up. In Malaysia or India, or even Australia, there's not that urgency. America, if you'll permit the generalisation, doesn't like to be that far behind - 40 years ago, they didn't care enough, but the much-vaunted American Exceptionalism (which is in any case at least a partial myth forged by the habit of historical cliché) has taken a hit in an era of globalisation. And besides, soccer is business. And to me, to put it an a language that the owners of the Galaxy and New York FC should understand, signing the -ards is not just pointless for MLS and US soccer, but also a very poor short term business decision.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
The Awesome Berbaslug wrote:
Well, I'm not holding my breath, TAB. You've seen Gerrard play more than I have so you have a better idea of what he brings or doesn't bring to the game. Galaxy fans suffered the flop that was Luis Hernandez, so we know disappointment with overpaid marquee players. "El Matador" was supposed to bring the Mexican fans in droves thru the turnstiles and what an expensive bust that turned out to be. So as they say in theatre if Stevie G can remember his lines and not trip over the furniture (and not fall down either) we'll get on with the show and hope for the best.I think Elvis wilbury might be in for a bit of a disappointment when it comes to steven gerrard though.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
The biggest worry I have is what will happen to team cohesion. Juninho and Sarvas are the best central pairing in the league, and Husidic really surprised me last year. Who will have to make way for Gerrard, or will it be Ishizaki?Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
It's the "good English club players, but no more" that I see as being the mirror-image of the over-hyped. Gerrard and Lampard have been exceptional English club players. The gap between 'good English club player' and 'international star' is rather a wide one and it is in that space where these two reside, closer to the upper end of it as well.imp wrote: I don't think they're bad players - as I wrote, they're good English club players, but no more. They have been consistently built up down the years as international stars, and their major tournament record has proven again and again that they're not.
That is kind of enough hijacking this thread about their past, though. Its their future (if Lampard ever turns up) which should be the concern.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
international football is immensely enjoyable at world cup and european championship times, but it isn't where you ultimately judge players. Football has moved on so much in terms of coaching and organization that the largely improvisational nature of international football renders it a very different sport indeed.
it's at the top level of major leagues, and the latter stages of the champions league where you measure players now. in their prime, those players were hugely influential players who were playing in by far the strongest league in europe, and would go into every season expecting to at least make the semi finals of the CL. for the five years where these players were at their peak, Uefa's top ranked teams were the English top four, and either Milan or barcelona.
And Lampard wasn't really a box to box midfielder, he was an immensely reliable and effective attacking midfield fulcrum for one of the strongest teams in europe for nearly a decade, and scored at least 20 goals a season for five consecutive years, falling one short the season before that. He was also setting up about 20 goals a season in this time frame. The entire chelsea way of playing was built around him, and getting the most out of him, and he generally delivered. he was also well able to be part of Jose's nine men behind the ball strategy.
I'll agree that there's not a lot of magic there, but he was a consistently effective and influential player at the highest level for a very long time. i suspect that if you were to ask observers less annoyed by the bullshit surrounding the premiership, or less perturbed about england's eternal inability to field a team remotely close to the sum of its parts, they'd probably find your view of lampard as a bit puzzling.
and now I feel a bit queasy. (I mean only yesterday I was praising bloody john Terry for his grasp of basic defending)
but if MLS is signing these players to boost its profile among americans who watch the premiership, while waiting for more suitable players to come along then that's fine. It's another way to grow the league, particularly now that landycakes has retired. MLS isn't exactly laden down by star quality at the moment, and while the path to MLS becoming a stronger and better league overall is going to ultimately be based on financial solidity, youth development and getting people through the gate, and watching on television, a sprinkling of star quality is going to help on the way. As long as they take it seriously when they are there, and aren't fucking off back to play in a european league and missing a chunk of the season, then it will probably be fine. And when more suitable players become available, then the league will be more attractive to them, and the prospect of living in new york or LA will be more attractive than qatar. (Xavi recently said that he probably would have been joining lampard in New York, but the six months off didn't appeal to him and he decided to give it one more year at barcelona)
I'll put it to you this way, do you regret MLS giving 4.5 million a year to washed up has been Robbie fucking Keane, now that He's King Robbie the first of America? Nobody takes MLS football more seriously than King Robbie, who has completely reinvented himself. There are risks attached to signing these players, but they're not the Same risks that fucked the NASL.
and if the narrative about stevie G finally winning a league title becomes to nauseating, just remember that he's only there for 18 months, and then there will be someone else.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
The biggest worry I have is what will happen to team cohesion. Juninho and Sarvas are the best central pairing in the league, and Husidic really surprised me last year. Who will have to make way for Gerrard, or will it be Ishizaki?
in championship manager 2000/1 stefan ishizaki would now be coming towards the end of his career at barcelona or juventus. I was kind of shocked to see him playing in the playoff final. Almost as shocked as when I saw Kennedy Bakircioglu in the flesh for the first time.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
I'm a CM nerd, I don't remember him from back then, though I was strictly CM 01/02.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
I take your point, but with regard to Gerrard especially we have to respectfully disagree. He really isn't that good - so many games I've watched down the years where he's wasted possession because his long passing game is not anything like as consistently good as he and his coaches and fans seem to think it is. So many wildly blasted shots. I just haven't seen what so many others claim to have seen, to so many aspects of his game. Lampard, now being over-rated by berbaslug (obviously still in shock that I not only read one of his posts in full, but agreed with it too) is a more consistent performer, but as slug himself says, he doesn't exactly set the place on fire. He's good, but not at all in a memorable way. Boringly good, not Messi-good - there's no character or flair to his game. Of course you'd want him in your team because he has a habit of popping up 12 yards out and slotting it into the corner. Just like Coldplay will bring out another album to public acclaim and mass sales. Yes, Lampard is the Chris Martin of the penalty area.Janik wrote:
It's the "good English club players, but no more" that I see as being the mirror-image of the over-hyped. Gerrard and Lampard have been exceptional English club players.
I'll cede that the Champions League is now as much of a measure of a player's success as the major international championships (albeit a much less interesting competition to watch). The -ards have one CL winners' medal each.
But, as Janik says, let's keep this to MLS. So, let's ramp up the excitement ahead of today's Superdraft...Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
As you know, Every year one CM scout would go completely mental and report back that their country had a bunch of young players that were going to change football and in the 00-01 version, it was the swedish guy.Incandenza wrote: I'm a CM nerd, I don't remember him from back then, though I was strictly CM 01/02.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
Sweden was still pretty great in 01/02, the Greek players always over-performed compared to their attributes in that game, but the Swedes all were class. Kallstrom and Farnerud were must-buys.The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote:As you know, Every year one CM scout would go completely mental and report back that their country had a bunch of young players that were going to change football and in the 00-01 version, it was the swedish guy.Originally posted by IncandenzaComment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
MLS is renaming the MVP award to the Landon Donovan MVP Award.
Meanwhile, Greg Howard at Deadspin ethers Jozy and MLS as a whole for his move back:
When Steven Gerrard takes the pitch for the first time in Los Angeles this summer, fans will don their Liverpool jerseys and reminisce about a heated game that took place in Istanbul, a decade in the past. He'll be the best player on the pitch in most games the Galaxy play, but that won't be the point; the point will be seeing a dead man.
This is an honest and fair transaction, given that many fans go to MLS games for the same reason people still go to Aerosmith concerts. But in their wake are droves of American players whose careers have sputtered overseas, and who are coming home in search of another crack at playing time, money, and fame. Clint Dempsey, 31, will likely end his career in Seattle after being benched at Tottenham in 2013. Michael Bradley, one of the USMNT's biggest stars, made a controversial return last year. Brek Shea, Maurice Edu, and Mix Diskerud have all just recently signed to MLS teams. In addition to being a final lap for once-great foreigners, this country's top flight has become home to Americans who fail when they test themselves in foreign lands—a respite not just for famous has-beens, but for famous not-quites and never-weres.
It's damning that writers are already eulogizing Gerrard, calling him one of the great one-club men in history, when he's slated to play for MLS's best team this summer. It's damning that 33-year-old midfielder Gareth Barry revealed in an interview that "America was an option, and there was a conversation about it but when I spoke to the coaches here they said, 'If you are going there, you are retiring.'" It's damning when German legend Philipp Lahm mentions the American top flight in the same breath as a Qatari league famous for little more than overpaying players past their prime. And in its way, it's just as damning that Altidore, a proven failure in Europe, is not only coming home to one of MLS's favored teams, but doing so in the expectation that he'll prove to be a difference-maker.
So maybe it's best if Altidore fails here, too, just as he has nearly everywhere else, and in so doing at least proves that MLS is tough enough to stifle him. After all, a league that only exists as a last refuge for old men and as a place where young washouts can play at being something else isn't much of a league at all.Comment
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Stevie, Gee! MLS and the Golden Shower, 2015
Yes, this deification of Donovan makes me feel all queasy:
"The Landon Donovan MVP Award features a silhouette of Donovan applied to a sterling silver MLS Crest, which is attached to a black, ebonized wood base with a sterling silver collar."
I think Greg Howard at Deadspin is aiming for lots of hits and comments in reaction to his words.Comment
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