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Originally posted by hobbes View PostCan't we ask an Octopus or the Mirror's supercomputer or sommat?
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The formation of the Premier League wasn't football's original sin but in the modern age it was a decisive one. And all those who voted for it - be they Oldham or Man Utd - can't credibly complain about the consequences biting them on the arse.
I always remember in the early exchanges of the breakaway plans in the mid-to-late 80s, Martin Edwards saying "the small clubs have been bleeding the game dry - they need to be put to sleep." That's the chairman of Manchester United wanting half our clubs to die. People like Edwards knew how a breakaway would benefit clubs like his and schemed actively for it from 1985 on. They weren't a lucky mid-table club who just happened to have a decent youth team. They were the richest and best supported club in the country and they wanted to fuck the rest of us over.
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Originally posted by ad hoc View Postit kind of is though. Hardly the first sin in English football history but the point at which the die was cast for where we are now.
Every subsequent decision made by the Premier League and its leading clubs has been a "hold my beer" moment as they think of yet more underhand and malevolent ways to make more money without any consideration of who gets pushed down into the dirt.
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Originally posted by Flynnie View PostI’m just tired of the Premier League being some kind of original sin
that excuses all other subsequent actions.
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Originally posted by Flynnie View PostWell yeah dude, that’s because it was a massive bit of whataboutery.
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I’m just tired of the Premier League being some kind of original sin that excuses all other subsequent actions. None of the original decision makers are even still around their clubs as far as I can tell. You might as well rail against broken-time payments.
Particularly when it’s a City fan. I’m not talking about today’s City, I mean the City that played in one of the 10 largest grounds in the country in Maine Road and clearly would have done very well out of TV rights had they not been inept.
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It is always valuable to have arguments about who is football's best millionaire egotist overlord. See this one is really good on social and corporate governance and is not at all in it for himself...
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Well yeah dude, that’s because it was a massive bit of whataboutery.
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Originally posted by G-Man View Post
For all the iniquities created by the Premier League, and all the moral reservations you and I share, its establishment was not some kind of tax cheat.
find loopholes. I was making a moral equivalence not a literal one.
Similarly I am fully aware that other clubs voted for PL gravy train but as the Big Six instigated the whole idea it’s not unreasonable to consider them more culpable.
None of which is particularly relevant in the context of this thread anyway. The more I harp on about the formation of the PL the more it seems like a diversion - whataboutery if you wish - and I have no intention of doing that.
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The interesting aspect is that four of the initial "Big Five" favoured ITV over Sky as the Premier League broadcaster, which would have made no difference to the remaining 72, but may have tempered the subsequent Lucullan excesses.
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Originally posted by Tony C View Post
The ‘Big Six’ exploited the desperate weakness of English football administration to enforce the most exploitative, self-rewarding project imaginable. Your notion of them being able to “capitalise on the windfalls of their scheme” is akin to showering praise on a tax dodger who cynically found loopholes in the tax system to save himself millions but spent the money well.
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I remember when you couldn't be bothered to care about them
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Originally posted by Foot of Astaire's View PostI'm seeing a lot of Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool fans, amongst others, gleefully reporting this and hoping to see an end to City's financial doping and dominance. The thing is, those 3 in particular, were at the forefront of driving the Champions League cartel. A competition designed to make them and the other European elite clubs a shed load of money whilst doing its utmost to prevent anyone else getting in on the act.
The suggestion that City's success has been bought but theirs was somehow morally superior and earnt. They're not getting the genie back in the bottle. They may as well let City off and Newcastle too, in a few years no doubt.
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Originally posted by Reginald Christ View Post
Very much so, yes. The point I was trying to make was that if you're a massive club that's suddenly confronted with an existential crisis it helps if you have a mythic sense of your own importance to fall back on because it can galvanise your team. Not many clubs have that (I'm also not saying that it's necessarily a good thing to have) and I don't think Manchester City are one of them.
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Originally posted by Tony C View Post
Absolutely. A clean skate would have suited them nicely.
Hmmmmm, all sounds very fishy to me.
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Originally posted by Tony C View Post
Not disputing that for a second, but isn’t that the case at 99% of professional clubs worldwide? Players at any level tend to choose their clubs based on financial considerations and opportunity to thrive amongst talented peers. As long as they train hard, look after themselves and play to the best of their ability isn’t that “love” enough?
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Originally posted by caja-dglh View Post
It is why the fanbase that considers this a "witch hunt" is a mystery to me. This is like OPEC having to punish a member for overproducing oil. Everyone is meant to play nicely so the collective make a fortune. There is a lot at risk - cynically I would suggest this is a key contributor to why MCFC were supportive of the break-away.
The online behaviour of many City fans doesn’t surprise me, they have a habit of circling the wagons and putting their fingers in their ears at times like this. A common response on the Bluemoon Forum over the last day or so had been “well I’m not listening to another football podcast or read another article for a few weeks” so denial is clearly rife. I guess the rest of the seven stages of grief will be on display soon enough.
Last edited by Tony C; 07-02-2023, 19:09.
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Originally posted by Reginald Christ View PostThis is good on how things might play out if a) City were found guilty b) there was sufficient will to punish them harshly and c) their legal team wasn't able to spare them.
Everyone who is at City is there because they're being paid more money than they'd get anywhere else and because of the other talented players and coaches who are already in situ. Nobody is at City because they deeply love the club..
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