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    #26
    DELANEY OUT

    I just cannot understand the substitutions. Cox on but not Hoolahan. McClean off after having a pretty good game.

    It's surrealistically awful management. It's like Jack Charlton with his seven defenders on the pitch by the end of the Netherlands play-off game at Anfield in 1995.

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      #27
      DELANEY OUT

      These guys are too depressed to play football for Ireland.

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        #28
        DELANEY OUT

        Personality doesn't win football matches.

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          #29
          DELANEY OUT

          Maybe it's all just been lost in translation. Maybe Trap is saying, "Play the ball, Long!" and the players are hearing, "Don't fucking even try to play football you fucking idiots."

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            #30
            DELANEY OUT

            Ibrahimovic does all the donkey work that Robbie Keane couldn't be arsed with. That's why Robbie Keane plays for LA Galaxy.

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              #31
              DELANEY OUT

              Keane plays a lot better for us than he does for Ireland.

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                #32
                DELANEY OUT

                Eamonn Dunphy feels sorry for all the kids.

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                  #33
                  DELANEY OUT

                  "Shambles" "Depressed" "Don't care"

                  That could be Dunphy who said that, but it was John Giles.

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                    #34
                    DELANEY OUT

                    Shut your chip hole Liam Brady.

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                      #35
                      DELANEY OUT

                      The team needs a massive fresh start. The problem is that, with two exceptions who didn't get off the bench, most of the young(ish) guns were out there tonight and they did fuck all.

                      I don't know where we go from here, even with the dead hand of Trap removed. I really don't.

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                        #36
                        DELANEY OUT

                        I can only imagine that it's enormously depressing to play for Trap. He's like a massive fist crushing all humanity on the pitch.

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                          #37
                          DELANEY OUT

                          "I was convinced we had the opportunity to increase our personality"

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                            #38
                            DELANEY OUT

                            RTE lads are saying Trap's English is no good. His English is fantastic, he just talks shite. He talks shite in Italian too.

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                              #39
                              DELANEY OUT

                              Incandenza wrote: Keane plays a lot better for us than he does for Ireland.
                              He also tends to score even when he's having a bad game. That was his 60th international goal tonight.

                              None of our other forwards seem able to score at all. What the hell was Long playing at with that excuse for a header near the end? It was as if he was scared of the ball.

                              It's all very well dismissing Keane out of hand because his general play is shite, which it is, but who the fuck is going to actually stick the ball in the net when he's gone? Not any of these lads.

                              We are certain to go the way of Wales and Scotland in the next few years -- perennial fourth or fifth seeds -- unless we get the next managerial appointment spectacularly right. Which of course we won't, seeing as our FA is run by a man with the footballing acumen of Muffin the Mule.

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                                #40
                                DELANEY OUT

                                I saw a shot of Chris Hughton in the crowd tonight (he appeared to be taking a photo of the pitch, due to an optical illusion). If he had been entertaining any thoughts of ever taking this job in the near future, they will have been forcibly dispelled from his brain long before the end.

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                                  #41
                                  DELANEY OUT

                                  It's all very well dismissing Keane out of hand because his general play is shite, which it is, but who the fuck is going to actually stick the ball in the net when he's gone? Not any of these lads.
                                  Football is a team sport, there's no point in having a striker who scores a goal and ends up on the losing side.

                                  who the fuck is going to actually stick the ball in the net when he's gone? Not any of these lads.
                                  We don't know that. Ireland's tactics have nothing to do with working the ball into an attacking position and creating chances. It's all hoof the ball up the pitch and pray. An Inzaghi-type like Robbie Keane is the only player likely to thrive in that kind of Darwinian attacking environment.

                                  I would approach Co Adriaanse for manager. He has officially retired, but international management might be what he's looking for. The press will hate his manner, but he is extremely professional and competent in the team selection and tactics department. Irish teams pretty much motivate themselves once they are allowed to play football, so we don't need some kind of motivator type manager. Just somebody with the basic intelligence to recognise that yes, our midfield is a barren wasteland and it mightn't be such a bad idea to stick three people in there.

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                                    #42
                                    DELANEY OUT

                                    Well, we'll see. However I remain deeply unconvinced that losing to retirement a forward who, for all his faults, scores in 50% of his appearances will improve our chances of winning more matches. And even when Keane scores two or three goals you still try to slag him, so who cares really.

                                    Anyone who saw Long's performance tonight will have turned pale as regards the idea of him being Ireland's main striker for the next 7-8 years. He surely can't be that bad again next Tuesday but it was an unmitigated shocker. Keane was bad too, but at least scored.

                                    Putting another man in midfield will of course improve things. However, it won't turn our other strikers into better finishers. Keane offers nothing but goals (!!!!) -- once he's gone, the goals go with him, and what's the alternative? Jonathan Walters again.

                                    It has to be faced up to that we're a shit team in general, and not just because of the manager -- that's a fallacy clung to by the likes of Dunphy, who continually and routinely drowns the players in praise after yet another crap performance, like a theatre critic who won't slag off the actors no matter how bad the play actually is. That second half tonight was as wretched as anything Ireland have served up in the last decade, which is saying a lot. Trapattoni deserves the majority of the blame but not all of it. Too many of our players are just piss-poor.

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                                      #43
                                      DELANEY OUT

                                      Well, we'll see. However I remain deeply unconvinced that losing to retirement a forward who, for all his faults, scores in 50% of his appearances will improve our chances of winning more matches.
                                      Zlatan didn't score tonight, but his team won because he was the better forward. Even though he didn't score.

                                      Ireland's biggest loss to retirement has been Damien Duff. He scored hardly any goals. But he made an immensely positive contribution to the team - his football intelligence, his ability to hold on to the ball (thus letting the rest of the team find its shape again), his ability to make the simple pass. He was constantly double marked by the opposition and drew free-kicks. No team with Damien Duff in it is going to get hammered 6-1 at home.

                                      If I could swap Robbie Keane for Damien Duff I'd do it in a flash. 60 goals or no 60 goals.

                                      And even when Keane scores two or three goals you still try to slag him, so who cares really.
                                      Keane has never scored two or three goals against a team that isn't cannon fodder. If international goals against shit teams is a measure of greatness, then Ali Daei is the greatest international forward who ever walked the Earth.

                                      Putting another man in midfield will of course improve things. However, it won't turn our other strikers into better finishers.
                                      No, but they will start to play football. Starting to play football is the first step in playing football.

                                      One thing that has to be done is to banish this whole "making the step up to international level" bullshit that managers go on about and pundits regurgitate. There was a time, pre-TV money, when a club team represented a city and a national team represented a country, and it really was a step up. But now many club teams in top leagues have superior squads than most national teams. A player like Coleman showed that he can slot quite easily into international football with no bedding in time. Of course he can, he is regularly playing right-back for Everton.

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                                        #44
                                        DELANEY OUT

                                        No, but they will start to play football. Starting to play football is the first step in playing football.
                                        I'm not sure it's as simple as that generally and particularly so for a team with the technical limitations of Ireland.

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                                          #45
                                          DELANEY OUT

                                          It's all very well dismissing Keane out of hand because his general play is shite, which it is, but who the fuck is going to actually stick the ball in the net when he's gone? Not any of these lads.

                                          Perhaps part of the reason that robbie keane is the only one of our forwards who seems to score is that he's the only one who is allowed not score. It doesn't matter if he essentially goes nearly 20 games without scoring, he'll always be there next time, and he only needs to score one or two goals to justify his presence all over again, and suddenly the finger is pointed at the other players for not flourishing in the system that is tailored to making keane look good.

                                          I mean this post is a perfect example of this sort of selection bias. Keane plays like utter dogshit for two years, barely manages a shot on target, but bang in a couple of goals against two rubbish teams and suddenly he's our only striker who can score. Then he's in the position to capitalize on long running into the middle of the pitch to flick on the ball, and for the swedish defence to have a nervous breakdown

                                          Any alternative to a team built around robbie Keane is given one game at a time, and is usually set up to fail. Tonight Long's job was to knock the ball down to Robbie Keane. We wellied the ball up the pitch at every opportunity. The ball goes back to the keeper, gets lumped up the pitch, and Robbie tries to get something out of the scraps. The only player that is going to look good in a system like that is the one feeding on the scraps when it turns out well.

                                          I'm not sure which long chance you're talking about to be honest, is it the header where keane slid in on isaksson? That looked like he was nodding it down. Either way as long as the management keep giving alternatives to keane one game to prove themselves, and then can discount them even if they work, then we're never going to get anywhere.

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                                            #46
                                            DELANEY OUT

                                            I'm not sure it's as simple as that generally and particularly so for a team with the technical limitations of Ireland.

                                            To be honest, You were saying this sort of shit back when we were doing things like dominating possession in world cup games against spain. Ireland have plenty of player capable of playing decent football. They just have an absolute fucking dinosaur of a manager who is stealing our money and depressing our players.

                                            international football is not rocket science, unfortunately trap is more of a bronze age kind of guy

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                                              #47
                                              DELANEY OUT

                                              Coleman didn't look like he was slotting into anything in particular tonight. But I digress . . .

                                              If international goals against shit teams is a measure of greatness, then Ali Daei is the greatest international forward who ever walked the Earth.
                                              Well, yes. All prolific international strikers score a fair few against shit teams in meaningless matches, including the very best ones (Gary Lineker and Romario both scored the majority of their international goals in friendlies, unlike certain people we could mention). It's kind of the nature of the beast. What you're trying to imply is that Keane could only be depended on to score against shit teams, which is disprovable by even a quick glance at the facts.

                                              In an ideal world Keane would have been put out to grass after Euro 2012 and thanked for all his goals. Trap has stuck with him for this long because none of the other available strikers is able score with even semi-regularity. I blame Trap for a hundred different things but not for that decision. When you need to keep getting results, you're going to go for the bloke who has 50-odd goals in the bank already and is always liable to score a few more.

                                              Our problems go miles, miles beyond Robbie Keane not doing much outside the box. And he's hitting the road soon anyway.

                                              I really think we're headed for Northern Ireland territory soon. Trap has done a poor job, fourth place in this group looks increasingly likely and that's going to fuck our seeding for the next couple of tournaments. God help the next manager unless two or three very good young players suddenly just burst out of nowhere.

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                                                #48
                                                DELANEY OUT

                                                he's the only one who is allowed not score. It doesn't matter if he essentially goes nearly 20 games without scoring, he'll always be there next time
                                                What is this "nearly 20 games" stuff? The longest he's ever gone without scoring for Ireland is eight games, when he was aged 20 and 21. If you dislike him, then good luck to you, but there's no need to exaggerate.

                                                Alan Shearer once went 12 matches without scoring for England, right up to Euro 96. Venables wasn't stupid enough to drop him for it though.

                                                I'm not sure which long chance you're talking about to be honest, is it the header where keane slid in on isaksson? That looked like he was nodding it down.
                                                "Nodding it down"? Hahahahaha. Did you actually see it? Long turned away and the ball randomly hit him on the side of his head. Heading it properly and missing is forgivable, recoiling from it and letting it bounce off your cheek isn't.

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                                                  #49
                                                  DELANEY OUT

                                                  The problems still all come back to keane. Building the team around him means that you have to play a forward to knock the ball down to him, and he has to do the running for two. We then can only have two men in midfield, and they are made look like a right bunch of cunts regardless of who they are.

                                                  This two man midfield means that they struggle to hold onto the ball, struggle to control the game for any length of time. They can't pass the ball forward because keane is invisible, and they wind up playing it back, where the keeper is forced to cunt the bloody thing up the field, rendering our wingers completely useless. It means that our full backs have to stay deep. it makes everyone look bad.

                                                  The thing is that it takes time to develop an alternative approach to play, but we're never, ever going to make progress towards that as long as we keep reverting to robbie Keane in the hope that this time it will work.

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                                                    #50
                                                    DELANEY OUT

                                                    To be honest, You were saying this sort of shit back when we were doing things like dominating possession in world cup games against spain. Ireland have plenty of player capable of playing decent football. They just have an absolute fucking dinosaur of a manager who is stealing our money and depressing our players.
                                                    It's always the manager or some other excuse; you can't accept you have the same group of broadly mediocre players that the rest of the world sees.

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