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    DELANEY OUT

    An interesting take on a performance that The Times for one commented on how poor the passing was.

    To be shit is an abstract notion I guess. Regarding Ireland a case can be made based upon stuff like results, performances, the absence of players playing at CL level, the absence of players playing at a high level generally and a FIFA ranking of 59 that puts you below Uzbekistan.

    You could dismiss all that as anecdotal but I'd love to hear your flip side - just as long as it's not solely Trap having held you back from your naturally more buoyant status in the world game.

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      DELANEY OUT

      Well, Trap did deliver the worst ever home result in the history of the Irish national team. That's quite an achievement.

      The passing was poor at times last night, and it was good at times. When Germany didn't have the ball, that is, which was hardly ever. The main thing is that passing was attempted by Ireland. You can only get good at something through practice. There's a long road ahead.

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        DELANEY OUT

        why did he pick kevin doyle? he must be the least interested in football player i've ever seen. i remember before the 2006 world cup, his tip to win it was the united states. he just didn't know anything about the world cup and said he probably wasn't going to watch it. seven years later it looks to me like he's just hanging on in there till the end of his wolves contract and that's his lot. you get the sense he's almost embarrassed by the absurdity of it but he's still gonna take what's coming to him.

        the most annoying moment of the match came with about 15 minutes to go when stokes had that shot, coleman followed up really well with a shot neuer couldn't quite stop, leaving the ball trickling across an unguarded goalmouth... and jansen was able to clear it easily because doyle had made no effort to join the attack. it was obvious then that the reason doyle never scores is essentially that he has no interest in scoring.

        did anthony stokes have a disastrous game, or an almost-very-good one? i thought he was at least as good as keane's been in any game over the last four years. the missed chances weren't great but i couldn't imagine keane making some of those opportunities for himself. and the air shot wasn't great but robbie keane is the fucking air shot king, so not much difference there.

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          DELANEY OUT

          The main thing is that passing was attempted by Ireland. You can only get good at something through practice. There's a long road ahead
          I think there's a big part of the art of management you are overlooking. If the above paragraph was about a boy's team then it would be perfectly fair enough but as, unfortunately, it's about a team of fully fledged professional adults then it smacks of naivety.

          No international manager has the time with his squad to 'improve' a player's core skills. At best he can work on some set-pieces, make sure everyone knows traits and styles of play by their opponents and then try and motivate them a bit.

          International managers inherit the strengths and the flaws of their players and just have to work round them and make the best of what they can. For an international manager to try and make his players play a passing game when they are inherently incapable of doing so at a decent level isn't a brave and enlightened move - it's downright stupidity and demonstrates a glaring lack of awareness for his available resources.

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            DELANEY OUT

            garcia wrote: did anthony stokes have a disastrous game, or an almost-very-good one? i thought he was at least as good as keane's been in any game over the last four years. the missed chances weren't great but i couldn't imagine keane making some of those opportunities for himself. and the air shot wasn't great but robbie keane is the fucking air shot king, so not much difference there.
            I thought he had a decent game. Tried to play football and generally got in the right places. Obviously the pass out of defence didn't come off for him, but then he is a striker.

            Agree regarding Robbie Keane. The air shot is his trademark move and as for the one-on-one missed on Neuer... we missed out on South Africa because Robbie Keane kicked the ball into touch when he was one-one-one against Lloris. He is/was a decent striker, Robbie Keane, but he has been elevated to mythical proportions by the Dublin media. Any Irish striker in the post-Robbie Keane error (edit: I mean "era" - Freudian slip there) is going to suffer from the same poisoned chalice syndrome that David Moyes is suffering from at Man Utd post-Fergusion.

            Kevin Doyle on the wing made no sense whatsoever when you have Aiden McGeady, James McClean and Joey O'Brien on the bench.

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              DELANEY OUT

              dalliance wrote: International managers inherit the strengths and the flaws of their players and just have to work round them and make the best of what they can. For an international manager to try and make his players play a passing game when they are inherently incapable of doing so at a decent level isn't a brave and enlightened move - it's downright stupidity and demonstrates a glaring lack of awareness for his available resources.
              Yeah, I have a feeling we've discussed this before. Thing is, we don't pretend to want to be Spain. Denmark or Sweden would do.

              We tried the Trap way, we tried abandoning passing the football altogether and it resulted in our worst ever home result in history and the worst ever team performance in the history of the group phase of the European Championships. You will understand that international managers who set new records of that kind tend to get the sack.

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                DELANEY OUT

                we understand dalliance, there's no need to labour the point. Jewish boys have their foreskin removed shortly after birth, and children in the Islands off the the north western coast of europe all have their feet broken at birth and have horse shoes fitted. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

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                  DELANEY OUT

                  and the worst ever team performance in the history of the group phase of the European Championships. You will understand that international managers who set new records of that kind tend to get the sack.
                  Ah yes, Trap's record in major international tournaments is so much worse than all the other managers who have taken you to World Cups and European Championships in the past. Oh hang on a sec.....

                  Of the two others who have reached those rarefied heights, you absolutely despised one of them anyway. Certainly both had much better players available to them than Trap or whoever his successor might be.

                  I also find it interesting how you bemoan the inclusion of a superannuated Robbie Keane and yet last summer you defended the absolutely dreadful performances of Shay Given who really shouldn't have been at the tournament.

                  Trap certainly had that decision to answer for and it showed that he is conservative when it comes to his team selections. Then again, he perhaps believed that his near geriatric performers who were good players back in the day were still a better bet that the players coming through. Well, now we can see can't we.

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                    DELANEY OUT

                    Trap was a piss taking cunt, who should have retired years ago, and by the time he reached us, his footballing brain had atrophied to the point where the 'experience' had turned into 'prejudice'.

                    It turned out that when he wasn't managing the best resourced team in the competition, or didn't have the games fixed in his favour, there wasn't a whole lot there, other than his personality. And even that was somewhat diminished by his ability to only speak gibberish.

                    We're bored with him, and to be honest at some point you should just accept that he did a fucking terrible job. He fell so far short in so many of the aspects required of him as a manager of an international team that you should just let it go.

                    Hopefully our next manager won't be 30 years past his best, won't exclude players from the squad because he can't remember who he had a row with, and won't have an active disdain for our players, media (which is slavishly pro the manager) and our footballing public.

                    also hopefully he won't be so fucking staggeringly lazy.

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                      DELANEY OUT

                      Bryaniek wrote: He is/was a decent striker, Robbie Keane, but he has been elevated to mythical proportions by the Dublin media.
                      You're not seriously suggesting that Robbie Keane gets lauded by his home-town press because he's local?

                      I read this so-called Dublin press and he gets criticised for his poor performances as much as any other player does, record goal-tally or not.

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                        DELANEY OUT

                        "The Dublin media." Fucking hell.

                        It would be a waste of my precious time on this earth to engage with this kind of stuff.

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                          DELANEY OUT

                          I'd love to see the reaction from the usual suspects if Giovanni Trapattoni had been responsible for last night's fare and if Robbie Keane had turned in the exact same 90-minute display, kick for kick, that Anthony Stokes did. I think we can safely say there would be none of this mondo-bizarro wish fulfillment stuff about Ireland "playing a passing game" and Keane "trying to play football" and "getting in the right places".

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                            DELANEY OUT

                            we'd be pleased that trap had finally decided to put more players in central midfield, and thus had restricted germany mostly to long range shots. but it would have been five years too late.

                            Robbie Keane wouldn't have managed to get in position to do any of that. Not in his condition. With that lack of speed, that skin and those wrinkles, he must at least be 40.

                            And the amount of arse kissing of robbie Keane in the media is sickening. But then again everyone knows that he's going to be the captain forever, so you can't say mean things about him.

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                              DELANEY OUT

                              Of all the charges that may be fairly laid at the Irish Sporting Media's door, a wild and irrational anti-Cork bias is pretty far down the list.

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                                DELANEY OUT

                                The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: we'd be pleased that trap had finally decided to put more players in central midfield, and thus had restricted germany mostly to long range shots. but it would have been five years too late.

                                Robbie Keane wouldn't have managed to get in position to do any of that. Not in his condition. With that lack of speed, that skin and those wrinkles, he must at least be 40.

                                And the amount of arse kissing of robbie Keane in the media is sickening. But then again everyone knows that he's going to be the captain forever, so you can't say mean things about him.
                                House!

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                                  DELANEY OUT

                                  Why's everyone putting the boot in on King? He's only the caretaker, he didn't ask for or seek out the job and he certainly isn't going to be there in the spring.
                                  I thought there were good and bad points from the game, but overall, definitely more good than bad. First of all, we actually passed the ball around a bit at times, and we had a few chances and should have scored at least one. There's no right way to lose, but there are wrong ways, which is what we were largely doing for the last two years under Trap. On the evidence of yesterday's game, there is the possibility that we have got the players to develop a passing style that, while is never going to trouble Germany should at least allow us to play football against the likes of Austria or Sweden. Also, the fact that 2-0 down in a dead rubber game, we still kept going right til the end and actually looked more likely to score - it's much better than the tame gutless surrenders under Trap.
                                  The bad would have to include the lack of substitutions and the line-up itself. I think Stokes showed why he's good enough for the Scottish League but not good enough for this level of football - he got in good positions but gave the ball away far too easily (including for Germany's first goal), and still didn't really look like scoring. We have some decent attacking players, like Hoolahan, McGeady and Long for example, who have all been around long enough, yet we've never come close to working out how to maximise their contribution to the team. Last night didn't take us any closer.

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                                    DELANEY OUT

                                    Not anti-Cork, but definitely pro-Dublin. Ask anybody from anywhere else in the country.

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                                      DELANEY OUT

                                      First, that shows only that there is a culchie persecution complex; but fwiw the constant boosting of young rugby players from Munster generally, but especially Cork, is noted in all corners.

                                      Second, when Cork people say "the rest of the country" they always mean "Cork".

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                                        DELANEY OUT

                                        everyone knows that cork people have a persecution complex. they are to european cities what sinead o'connor is to the international music business.

                                        i'm curious about berbaslug's claim that the media is slavishly pro- the ireland manager. if they were pro-mccarthy to begin with that had certainly changed by the end, kerr was never given much support, staunton was openly laughed at and trap got plenty of criticism...

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                                          DELANEY OUT

                                          Robbie Keane is worshipped like a god in Dublin despite never actually having won anything.

                                          Oh, wait:





                                          Dubliners should remember who their true recent great is. Unfortunately they are not sophisticated enough to understand.



                                          Maybe he'll come out of retirement now that Trap is gone. We can hope.

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                                            DELANEY OUT

                                            Bryan reminds me of my English in-laws. They're from Bolton & St Helen's, and for as long as I've known them they've railed against the "London media". I used to see their point, be it related to football or general social matters, but then it became obvious that they were just viewing things through this paradigm they'd created. They don't seem to see that there are people who takes things at face-value, and don't feel the need to refer something that's just not relevant to the matter-at-hand.

                                            Robbie Keane gets plenty of stick in Dublin. I've attended enough games to hear it, and you can tell the accents of those who are far from enamoured with him. They're Dubs. And bar the RTE panel, he gets plenty of criticism in the press. Evidence of this is in the number of articles published by his few admirers over the last few years questioning why Keane doesn't get the adulation a record scorer might expect. Some argue it's because, unlike our other captain Brian O'Driscoll, he speaks with a working-class Dublin accent. I'd argue it's because, unlike Brian O'Driscoll, he is shit nearly all of the time. But that's beside the point. Robbie Keane is not universally-worshipped. Not by the fans and not by the media. Anybody who pays attention to either would know that.

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                                              DELANEY OUT

                                              I'm struggling to understand your first paragraph.

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                                                DELANEY OUT

                                                It makes sense.

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                                                  DELANEY OUT

                                                  Bryaniek wrote: I'm struggling to understand your first paragraph.
                                                  My relatives see things through this 'London prism'. So a positive comment, article, whatever about something or someone London-based is dismissed because they see it as typical of the 'London media'. Ditto negative comments about Northern people.

                                                  You seem to view Robbie Keane in the same manner. You see whatever positive is said about him as somehow pre-determined because he is a Dubliner and the Dublin-based media will worship him because of this.

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                                                    DELANEY OUT

                                                    Imagine the crack we would have on here every month if Robbie Keane happened to have been born in Cork and not Dublin.

                                                    Evidence of this is in the number of articles published by his few admirers over the last few years questioning why Keane doesn't get the adulation a record scorer might expect. Some argue it's because, unlike our other captain Brian O'Driscoll, he speaks with a working-class Dublin accent. I'd argue it's because, unlike Brian O'Driscoll, he is shit nearly all of the time.
                                                    Keane is crap most of the time nowadays, a condition not uncommon in 33-year-old professional footballers. But that's hardly the same thing as being shit per se.

                                                    We mustn't forget that Brian O'Driscoll's sport is one that is played at a serious level by maybe ten countries in the entire world.

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