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    Messi

    I have serious reservations over the whe The Greatest* conversation, it's largely pointless amd hugely boring. But nevertheless, Messi continues to perform to such a standard that it's becoming less and less of a conversation.

    I hadn't realised just how good he was (and I'm aware how daft this might sound) until I saw him in person. He's magical. He does nothing until the ball arrives to him, and then suddenly everything comes alive. Not just him. Everything. The pitch, and time and space seems to move around him, not vice versa. It's phenomenal to watch.

    So why then does he leave me so cold? Why do I get so little joy out of watching him perform? Is his brilliance so extreme, his mastery of the game so complete that's it's become clinical and cold? Is it overexposure, his every moment so documented that we're desensitised, part of the death of serendipity that affects so much of modern life? Or is it that he seems so joyless himself? It's very strange.

    He just doesn't provoke the same joy in me that others have. Cantona, Baggio, Ronaldinho, Zidane. These are players who are not at the level of Messi, but who I much rather preferred to watch.

    This'll end up being a me issue, I know, but I'm interested to know if I'm alone in this.

    *It's Maradona, btw

    #2
    It's because he looks like Rodney Bewes.

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      #3
      Originally posted by EIM View Post
      He just doesn't provoke the same joy in me that others have. Cantona, Baggio, Ronaldinho, Zidane. These are players who are not at the level of Messi, but who I much rather preferred to watch.
      You're older than he is. I think that's a big part of it.

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        #4
        The biggest mystery is why many people believe C. Ronaldo is in the same league as him.

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          #5
          Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post

          You're older than he is. I think that's a big part of it.
          I think it is part of it, yes. I also think it's because he's very obviously a complete nobhead.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
            The biggest mystery is why many people believe C. Ronaldo is in the same league as him.
            He is. Or was. A very different sort of player, but with a very similar record. I hate the comparisons because it should be able to enjoy both, but also because they drove each other to new levels through repeated excellence and achievement. Without each other neither would have been as good.

            Comment


              #7
              His heart's been broken too many times.

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                #8
                It's the nature of 21st century football that you get knocked out of most of the tournaments you play in, even if you're the GOAT and your club side was arguably the best ever for at least a couple of years.

                But that's probably one week of pain in a year when for the rest of the time he's swimming in money and adulation.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by EIM View Post
                  I have serious reservations over the whe The Greatest* conversation, it's largely pointless amd hugely boring. But nevertheless, Messi continues to perform to such a standard that it's becoming less and less of a conversation.

                  I hadn't realised just how good he was (and I'm aware how daft this might sound) until I saw him in person. He's magical. He does nothing until the ball arrives to him, and then suddenly everything comes alive. Not just him. Everything. The pitch, and time and space seems to move around him, not vice versa. It's phenomenal to watch.

                  So why then does he leave me so cold? Why do I get so little joy out of watching him perform? Is his brilliance so extreme, his mastery of the game so complete that's it's become clinical and cold? Is it overexposure, his every moment so documented that we're desensitised, part of the death of serendipity that affects so much of modern life? Or is it that he seems so joyless himself? It's very strange.

                  He just doesn't provoke the same joy in me that others have. Cantona, Baggio, Ronaldinho, Zidane. These are players who are not at the level of Messi, but who I much rather preferred to watch.

                  This'll end up being a me issue, I know, but I'm interested to know if I'm alone in this.

                  *It's Maradona, btw
                  It's not just you. I can admire his brilliance, but I think you nailed it in the second paragraph, it's a cold and seemingly joyless brilliance. Also for me,it's probably a bit of a pushback against the whole " if you don't love Messi/ Barcelona you don't love football " thing that grew up at their height.

                  Personally, when a Messi or Indurain or Tiger Woods comes around, the first thing I'm looking at is " who is going to knock them off their perch ".

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Compared to the other players you listed what is notable is his lack of personality. I'm not saying he has not got one, but he does not display it in the public sphere. There is also not the highs and lows career arc of Cantona, Baggio or Zidane, there is no sense of struggle either on or off the pitch.

                    I would always choose Baggio as my greatest, but he won very little in his career, he was not a major player in the title wins at Juventus and Milan, and his will be forever known for that miss in 1994. But unlike Messi et al he achieved greatness playing for lesser clubs like Bologna and Brescia. All of this was achieved against the backdrop of struggle with a career threatening knee injury at the age of 18.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by EIM View Post
                      Or is it that he seems so joyless himself?
                      This. I would accept joylessness if I felt more passion. (Not in the gammon sense of "leg-breaking," but passion for the game.)

                      There are some players I've wanted to watch, sought out, made a point of catching a game for. I may not like them, or the team they're playing for, but they will involve me in the game. Over the years, this has included the ones you listed and others like Platini, Zidane, Boniek... Even someone like Suarez at his best; a total arse, but fuck me, what a firework show. Messi slipped out of that category for me. His brilliance is unarguable and whether he or Ronaldo is better is angels dancing on the head of a pin stuff. But... yeah... and..so...? Maybe I'm looking for charisma or personality as GftW says?

                      I have wondered whether I was "turned off" during that 3-year spell when the Pep-Barca-Messi hegemony seemed so complete there was no jeopardy in the games they contested - like watching a film in which the hero is invulnerable. Football at that level feels like watching a Marvel film for me - I like a good Marvel film, but it's not real. Maybe if I'd watched him live?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        His WC struggle is currently one RU, 3 QFs and one R16, and that will the sum total of his career if he loses v Netherlands (which I think is a 50-50 game).

                        We were spoiled by all his games being live on telly, unlike Boniek, Platini even Zidane.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          As with all threads grounded essentially in aesthetic preferences, this is saying more about the posters than the player

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                            As with all threads grounded essentially in aesthetic preferences, this is saying more about the posters than the player
                            Exactly this, and we could make a fortune selling a profiling system based of player preferences to gullible HR people - "very interesting, your profile points strongly to the Robbie Savage area, we see you in a Senior management role".
                            Last edited by Gert from the Well; 04-12-2022, 14:04.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              He's an immensely gifted player, but because of his links with Israel, the Saudis and his industrial scale tax evasion I only ever really enjoy seeing him fail.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Messi just comes across as a bit joyless and machine like. World class machinery for sure but he doesn't enthrall me as some of the others you've listed did.


                                He does seem more alive as a personality in this Argentinian side though, and I enjoyed watching him last night.


                                Originally posted by EIM View Post
                                *It's Maradona, btw
                                It is.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Independently of the discussion here my wife pointed me in the direction of this thread ;

                                  https://twitter.com/soozuk/status/1599114856518803456?s=46&t=0EPCuK3P-Bez4u8VfFaOQg

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I've been lucky enough to see him playing live on various occasions and struggle to see the antipathy towards him.Other players turn out for PSG etc. and don't get get half the flak. He is liked and admired by opposing fans:



                                    He seems to be a decent dad and family man, and I don't get the stuff about his supposed lack of joy. Apart from this, he almost always makes sure to celebrate with his teammates, unlike some other prima donnas.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      It's not antipathy. It's just I don't engage with him as I do with others. Maybe he needs more flaws to be relatable? As UA says, it's as much about the poster as the player. I wouldn't argue with someone who said he was their favourite ever, especially if they'd seen him live, and he's probably more likeable in person than, say Ronaldo 7. It's a chemistry thing, which until this thread, I'd always assumed was just me but interesting that others feel the same.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Sporting View Post
                                        He seems to be a decent dad and family man, and I don't get the stuff about his supposed lack of joy. Apart from this, he almost always makes sure to celebrate with his teammates, unlike some other prima donnas.
                                        Yeah that's all fair and perhaps seeing all the traps Maradona fell into, has made him be a near total opposite, but i'd still rather have seen Maradona play (I've seen Messi but once, and he made everything look effortless, made space with ease and pretty much always played the right pass, no question from me on ability, just the chemistry thing).

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Messi isn’t a primadonna, no - which is otherwise almost expected of great players these days. (Misplaced passion, in a lot of cases.) He’s often reminded me (or called to mind, if you prefer) of a combination of Cruyff and Maradona, with the balance and drive of the latter, and the vision and onfield temperament of the former, plus the god-given skill of both. What he does - like both of them - is almost entirely innate and instinctive.

                                          Ronaldo’s a fine player who still clearly works his socks off to achieve greatness - but, let’s be honest, Messi is lightyears better…


                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Messi has now scored a goal in the knock-out stages, in only his fifth World Cup, thus pulling level with Harry Maguire.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                              As with all threads grounded essentially in aesthetic preferences, this is saying more about the posters than the player
                                              Yes. And my take on him, rather inevitably, is I can never enjoy a game he's playing in - even now - as he is indelibly linked in my mind with Barcelona.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by EIM View Post
                                                I have serious reservations over the whe The Greatest* conversation, it's largely pointless amd hugely boring. But nevertheless, Messi continues to perform to such a standard that it's becoming less and less of a conversation.

                                                I hadn't realised just how good he was (and I'm aware how daft this might sound) until I saw him in person. He's magical. He does nothing until the ball arrives to him, and then suddenly everything comes alive. Not just him. Everything. The pitch, and time and space seems to move around him, not vice versa. It's phenomenal to watch.

                                                So why then does he leave me so cold? Why do I get so little joy out of watching him perform? Is his brilliance so extreme, his mastery of the game so complete that's it's become clinical and cold? Is it overexposure, his every moment so documented that we're desensitised, part of the death of serendipity that affects so much of modern life? Or is it that he seems so joyless himself? It's very strange.

                                                He just doesn't provoke the same joy in me that others have. Cantona, Baggio, Ronaldinho, Zidane. These are players who are not at the level of Messi, but who I much rather preferred to watch.

                                                This'll end up being a me issue, I know, but I'm interested to know if I'm alone in this.

                                                *It's Maradona, btw
                                                a) He dresses like a mid-management level accountant and
                                                b) He's better than Ronaldo,*

                                                Does that help?

                                                *Entirely subjective.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Changed my mind. That was brilliant and incredible and deserved and magic.

                                                  Comment

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