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The future, as seen from 1979

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    The future, as seen from 1979

    A fascinating excerpt from a BBC documentary about stadiums, finance, and the issues facing the game in England. Features Brian Clough, Lawrie McMenemy and Elton John, who turns out to be a remarkably insightful young man. They get most things right, over four decades ago.


    #2
    Elton foreshadowing the Danny Baker look of the early 90s.

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      #3
      My god, don't they look young?

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        #4
        I'd like to believe that I looked much younger forty-three years ago...

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          #5
          The prediction I remember from 1977-79 is that the laws of the game itself would be changed to imitate the American sports model, with four quarters and/or time-outs to suit TV; no game allowed to end in a draw, etc. This mercifully did not happen. The improvements needed to stadia had already been flagged in reports (and were obvious)* but were ignored because the incoming Tory govt assumed that football supporters were lower working-class and therefore, in their eyes, scum. But then Labour did not seem to have been any more enlightened in 1974-79.

          Interesting to see Clough (who was only 44) speaking calmly and in a relaxed manner rather than with an edge.** He predicts the Glazers (clubs being owned and controlled by people with no knowledge or care for the game) but he probably wouldn't have predicted that it would be another 26 years before they appeared, and another decade after that before the club became a travesty.

          It only took 13 years for McMenemy (who was 42-43***) to go from being an enlightened, progressive figure to the clueless twat sat next to Graham Taylor (who of course made a similar descent).

          *We'd already had the Ibrox disaster in that decade to follow those of earlier eras. It was also clear that attendances were falling because going to a game was such a shitty experience.

          **Infact, all the speakers seem far more like normal human beings talking to a documentary crew rather than a Football Focus one.

          ***suggesting that the period when managers did not age prematurely had already begun, unlike the Ramsey/Revie/Stein era.
          Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 13-08-2022, 18:57.

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            #6
            That was before the NASL crashed and burned, taking the appetite for such innovations (and the US audience they were designed to attract) with it.

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              #7
              What would £1 in 1979 values be worth today, in terms of buying power - presumably around a tenner? Interesting as said above, Clough considering how to balance the need for corporate investment to modernise the game versus those interests dictating club and league policies - perhaps the Bundesliga has come closest currently in that regard, even if Bayern's dominance is irreversible, and there has been excessive tolerance for both Leipzig and Hoffenheim.

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                #8
                Originally posted by Gangster Octopus View Post
                I'd like to believe that I looked much younger forty-three years ago...
                Me too. But Clough in particular looked younger than I expected from memory, more like his Derby days. I suppose that was only seven years earlier, and he started out in management young. Even so. Funny thing, memory.

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                  #9
                  Clough aged rapidly not soon as after this, perhaps because the drinking kicked in. Here he is in 1982 and I'd say he's already on the slide:

                  https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...n-Brian-Clough

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                    The prediction I remember from 1977-79 is that the laws of the game itself would be changed to imitate the American sports model, with four quarters and/or time-outs to suit TV; no game allowed to end in a draw, etc. This mercifully did not happen. The improvements needed to stadia had already been flagged in reports (and were obvious)* but were ignored because the incoming Tory govt assumed that football supporters were lower working-class and therefore, in their eyes, scum. But then Labour did not seem to have been any more enlightened in 1974-79.

                    Interesting to see Clough (who was only 44) speaking calmly and in a relaxed manner rather than with an edge.** He predicts the Glazers (clubs being owned and controlled by people with no knowledge or care for the game) but he probably wouldn't have predicted that it would be another 26 years before they appeared, and another decade after that before the club became a travesty.

                    It only took 13 years for McMenemy (who was 42-43***) to go from being an enlightened, progressive figure to the clueless twat sat next to Graham Taylor (who of course made a similar descent).

                    *We'd already had the Ibrox disaster in that decade to follow those of earlier eras. It was also clear that attendances were falling because going to a game was such a shitty experience.

                    **Infact, all the speakers seem far more like normal human beings talking to a documentary crew rather than a Football Focus one.

                    ***suggesting that the period when managers did not age prematurely had already begun, unlike the Ramsey/Revie/Stein era.
                    13 years is far too generous. He crashed & burned within 5 years with his stint at Sunderland 1985-87. Never again trusted to manage a league club after relegating* the twice pre-season favourites for promotion to the Third Division.

                    *Technically it was Bob Stokoe. But nobody on Wearside will accept that.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      That was an interesting watch, and good to see how progressive some people were in their view of the fans (unlike say the government, football authorities, and some even some clubs). Clough's take on Francis's soujourn in the NASL was not one that I expected. He seemed to extremely gracious about losing his key player, and risking injury. I wonder if Francis's move went as Clough recalls it?

                      My favorite bits were at 3.18 ("Wave to the Queen" followed by an extremely dismissive 'idiot') and Elton not liking vulgarity too much (which is a nasty quibble given how well he articulated the problems of the time - but I couldn't resist smirking)

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Discordant Resonance View Post
                        What would £1 in 1979 values be worth today, in terms of buying power - presumably around a tenner? Interesting as said above, Clough considering how to balance the need for corporate investment to modernise the game versus those interests dictating club and league policies - perhaps the Bundesliga has come closest currently in that regard, even if Bayern's dominance is irreversible, and there has been excessive tolerance for both Leipzig and Hoffenheim.
                        Five pounds 62 pence

                        https://www.in2013dollars.com/uk/inflation/1979

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                          all the speakers seem far more like normal human beings talking to a documentary crew rather than a Football Focus one.
                          Yes, it's refreshing. Often the case with old coverage. They aren't media-trained (in the modern sense), aren't "on-message" and aren't in the habit of interviewing themselves on social media. Although Clough certainly knew how to get the clicks when he wanted to, to use the anachronism.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                            Interesting to see Clough (who was only 44) speaking calmly and in a relaxed manner rather than with an edge.** He predicts the Glazers (clubs being owned and controlled by people with no knowledge or care for the game) but he probably wouldn't have predicted that it would be another 26 years before they appeared, and another decade after that before the club became a travesty.
                            Clough had already had major fallings out with Ernest Ord at Hartlepool, and Sam Longson at Derby, and within a week of leaving Derby he went on Parkinson and bemoaned the lack of knowledge of directors of football clubs (in the days leading up to Clough and Taylor leaving Derby, a director had demanded a meeting with Taylor, to find out what he actually did), so I think that prediction was more about corporates getting involved, rather than them getting involved and not knowing or caring.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by tee rex View Post

                              Yes, it's refreshing. Often the case with old coverage. They aren't media-trained (in the modern sense), aren't "on-message" and aren't in the habit of interviewing themselves on social media. Although Clough certainly knew how to get the clicks when he wanted to, to use the anachronism.
                              The Youtube auto-start after this video went to 1974: JACK CHARLTON: Middlesbrough Boss. Watching both in succession shows that directors and editors were good with silence and a verite documentary style. Now, everything must be quick, quick, quick. Loud music soundbeds and bad edits to show edits when someone doesn't answer at rate deemed fitting for an audience used to watching 30 second clips on their phones. The pace of these videos adds to the interest. Of course, living in the US, I hadn't see the original broadcasts or experienced the issues as discussed in both pieces, so there is another level of intrigue.

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                                #16
                                Nothing to do with the thread topic, but YouTube analytics now think I want to watch a bunch of documentaries about Jack Charlton. Well, it worked for one more. This ITV doc from 1971 is interesting when comparing to today. First, I don't know if a TV crew would get this type of access. Second, he has a lot to say about a lot of different things. Current footballers, who are admittedly told that they should speak up and then told to shut up when they do speak up, wouldn't seem to have opinions about ducks, working men's clubs, changes to domestic spaces, why men are involved in dog races, etc.

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                                  #17
                                  He always seemed relaxed in front of a camera in a way that his brother never was, and he found a life that was always balanced so if management hadn't worked for him there were always pursuits to fall back on that weren't golf and owning a pub.

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Discordant Resonance View Post
                                    What would £1 in 1979 values be worth today, in terms of buying power - presumably around a tenner?
                                    £7.37.

                                    I have no proof of this - it just feels right.

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                                      #19
                                      £1 in 1979 is worth £5.62 now.

                                      https://www.in2013dollars.com/uk/inflation/1979

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                                        #20
                                        These comparisons seem wild to me, comparing now when alcohol is a shit tonne cheaper compared to 1979, where the price of a gaff was conversely dirt cheap next to the hellscape of today.

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