Hearts or Hibs?

[Logan Mountstuart]

I've always been quite fascinated by this Derby, while at the same time admitting I know little little about the relationship between the two clubs.

I have a penchant for Hibs but don't dislike Hearts at all and am happy to see them do well if they do. They both seem to me to have had similar historical success.

So my questions are:

Is one of them generally seen as the bigger club?

How are their fans divided geographically inside and outside the city?

Is religion involved?

Who are the goodies and who are the baddies, and why?

Is Sunshine On Leith the best football song in the world (maybe a whole thread in itself)?

[Janik]

Hearts = protestant community, Hibs = nationalist community. It's not Glasgow... but the connections are still there.

[Lang Spoon]

Hearts are probably bigger, but not much in it. Hibs were the first Irish Catholic team in Scotland, Celtic stole their ethos and a load of their players. Nowadays though, don't think Hibs are much of a "Catholic" club at all, unlike Celtic. Apparently a third of Hibs fans identify as Catholic, I'd wager the figure for Celtic is much higher. Lots of prod Hibs fans, think a lot is based on where in Embra you live. though the only Cafflick Hearts fan I know is from Dublin, and a fool. Hibs are Leith which isn't really Embra it's a port town that was municipally separate till fairly recently. Hearts are based in Gorgie south west of there, nearer the city centre.

As to rivalry and size Hibs were amazing and all conquering in the 50s. Not so much now. Hearts when they arent firing George Butley/ going bankrupt are as close as you will get to a third force in Scotchball nowadays, which is to say they aren't.

hearts are a bit "prod" in that there's a smattering of Union Jacks and some elements singing dodgy songs. Also fans attacking Neil Lennon.

Lawyers and such Malcolm Malcolm types tend to be Hearts.

[tee rex]

Logan Mountstuart buys a present for his dad:

[Tony C]

Fictional detective Rebus is a Hibs fan but actor Ken Stott who played the part on tv is a big Hearts supporter who asked that the Rebus/Hibs narrative be kept to a minimum in the adapted scripts.

[Logan Mountstuart]

Thanks all. Can their fans watch the match together in pubs like Liverpool and Everton fans (used to) do? Or is the sectarianism still quite strong?

[Tony C]

I remember being anecdotally assured that Pat Stanton was a true great throughout the sixties without ever once seeing him play. Hibs were quite an exciting team
then.

[elguapo4]

Surely Rebus is Hearts in the books, and his assistant Siobhan who is the Hibee.

[Logan Mountstuart]

I suppose my formative football years being the 70s, I've always assumed Hibs were the slightly bigger club.

[Lang Spoon]

Thanks all. Can their fans watch the match together in pubs like Liverpool and Everton fans (used to) do? Or is the sectarianism still quite strong?

You will get families divided by Hearts and Hibs, probably more common than with the Old Firm. Rob M would have more idea, but I'd say there would be a bit of animus between opposing fans in the same pub, if not necessarily sectarian based hatred. And everyone hates Aberdeen fans.
Funny there doesn't seem to have been any Hibees on the board ever.

[Lang Spoon]

Surely Rebus is Hearts in the books, and his assistant Siobhan who is the Hibee.

from wiki:

Also, in the television series Rebus is portrayed as being a supporter of Hibernian (like Siobhan Clarke). This is not found in Ian Rankin's books, he having stated outside the books that Rebus is a Raith Rovers supporter.

supposedly Rankin is a secret Ger who masquerades as a Rovers fan, presumably to avoid the hassle of being a public Teddy Bear.

[My Name Is Ian]

I was in Scotland in September three years ago, and it was quite noticeable that while there was a lot of Rangers and Celtic stuff around in Glasgow, but had I walked around Edinburgh for a week I'd never have guessed there were two clubs there. I know they were just clearing up after the Fringe and the imprint of the clubs is much smaller, but I don't recall seeing anything at all in Edinburgh. Even taking all of that into account, it surprised me a tiny bit.

[Janik]

supposedly Rankin is a secret Ger who masquerades as a Rovers fan, presumably to avoid the hassle of being a public Teddy Bear.

Doesn't that just show the obsession with Rangers and Celtic, though?
[asked rather aggressively] "Who do you support, Rangers or Celtic?"
"Actually, I support Raith"
[disbelieving] "Year, right, Raith Rovers... But who do you REALLY support?"
"Really Raith"
[walks away, says to mates] "F8cker keeps refusing to answer. Must be Rangers"

[Lang Spoon]

I was in Scotland in September three years ago, and it was quite noticeable that while there was a lot of Rangers and Celtic stuff around in Glasgow, but had I walked around Edinburgh for a week I'd never have guessed there were two clubs there. I know they were just clearing up after the Fringe and the imprint of the clubs is much smaller, but I don't recall seeing anything at all in Edinburgh. Even taking all of that into account, it surprised me a tiny bit.

Rugby town, innit.

more seriously, neither stadium is much above 20000, they are much smaller teams than the cheeks. Edinburgh is also much smaller.

[Lang Spoon]

Doesn't that just show the obsession with Rangers and Celtic, though?
[asked rather aggressively] "Who do you support, Rangers or Celtic?"
"Actually, I support Raith"
[disbelieving] "Year, right, Raith Rovers... But who do you REALLY support?"
"Really Raith"
[walks away, says to mates] "F8cker keeps refusing to answer. Must be Rangers"

Ha come to think of it, may have been Mr Gardner on here where I heard the Rankin Ger thing.

[Lang Spoon]

I've had that above conv loads in Ireland, real assumption that Prod=Rangers. Annoying as fuck.

[Patrick Thistle]

Funny there doesn't seem to have been any Hibees on the board ever.

ingoldale was/is

[1974ddr]

I suppose my formative football years being the 70s, I've always assumed Hibs were the slightly bigger club.

Same here, the pecking order for Scottish Div 1 (as was) in my mind was Celtic, Rangers, Hibernian, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hearts, the rest. Didn't stop me developing a lifelong penchant for Albion Rovers though.

[Logan Mountstuart]

And me for Morton, DDR, although in the 70s I had Dundee ahead of Dundee United.

[Sporting]

Kilmarnock?

[ale]

Hibee. We got the two Johns-Brownlie & Blackley-direct from them while Tommy Craig also ended up at SJP. Another John-Robertson-is only signing recall with Hearts background. And Irvine Welsh is Hibs.

[Jobi1]

I'll put my hand up as a Hibee too. Always had a liking for them due to the Irishness and being an Irvine Welsh fanboy when I was a teen. Then when I moved to Edinburgh in 2005, I deliberately looked for somewhere to live on that side of town, and in fact ended up finding a flat barely 5 minutes' walk from the ground, got a season ticket for the few years I was there, and built a great group of friends around going to the match.

As has been noted by others, in my experience there's very little in the way of sectarianism - you see the odd tricolour or union flag, but certainly no chanting that I ever heard (although Hearts do sing "the Gorgie boys" to one well-known refrain of that ilk) - and as discussed on another thread recently, the division does seem to be much more geographical these days than anything else (Hibs north/east, Hearts south/west). As Lang Spoon suggested, there also is perhaps traditionally a slight perceived element of class division to it as well, with Hibs being more associated with working-class Leith, compared to Hearts and the West End financial/legal set (and Ronnie Corbett). Again, I doubt those lines were ever really set in stone, and probably just reflect the rivals' prejudices.

Despite there not being sectarianism, I definitely wouldn't liken it to the supposedly less hostile derbies - there's a real edge to them and genuine hatred in some quarters. The casuals are always at each other; there was one derby I recall at Easter Road in the time I was there that ended up like that film The Warriors, with the Hearts lot being violently pursued literally all the way across the city back to their side. You'd be very unlikely to have a nice evening of friendly revelry in a pub with both sets of fans.

[Sunderporinostesta]

I watched Hearts V Aberdeen at Murrayfield three or four years back. Just as well I asked the kid at the hotel desk if Tynecastle was walkable. I’ve still no preferences up there. Also ICT v St Mirren a couple of weeks before Jack Thingy left St Mirren to manage Sunderland.

[gavc23]

I was in Scotland in September three years ago, and it was quite noticeable that while there was a lot of Rangers and Celtic stuff around in Glasgow, but had I walked around Edinburgh for a week I'd never have guessed there were two clubs there. I know they were just clearing up after the Fringe and the imprint of the clubs is much smaller, but I don't recall seeing anything at all in Edinburgh. Even taking all of that into account, it surprised me a tiny bit.

A lot is also that fans of the ugly sisters are much more, what’s the expression…in your face…about their support. My experience is that when a fan of either arsehole club is packing to go on holiday the first thing they put in their suitcase is their collection of the latest polyester.

I’ve lived in Edinburgh, save an interlude abroad for a couple of years, for 27 years and it’s safe to say that the Hibs and Hearts fans just aren’t that demonstrative about it. With less of the surrounding madness there isn’t that same need that the cheeks have to scream who you support at passers by/whoever is stood next to you in the gents at Wetherspoons.

Hearts does have a lunatic fringe with a penchant for sashes, marches and the Boyne but it’s fairly easy to keep out of their way. The Edinburgh rivalry isn’t friendly by any means but it isn’t toxic on top of that.

Hibs also seems to do a lot more in the community than Hearts. My eldest plays for Hibs in a National autistic league for teenagers and my other kids are forever getting chances to do stuff with the club through their schools and own teams. But that might be because we live out to the east of town and Hearts don’t venture past Abbeyhill.

[Jobi1]

Hearts does have a lunatic fringe with a penchant for sashes, marches and the Boyne but it’s fairly easy to keep out of their way. The Edinburgh rivalry isn’t friendly by any means but it isn’t toxic on top of that.

There is I think something of a perception that there's an element of hypocrisy among a section of the Hearts support, in that they'll be waving union flags when they play Hibs or Celtic, but then get the Saltire out and sing 'Flower of Scotland' when they play Rangers. Not sure exactly how true that is. But I can tell you that Celtic's nationalist songbook gets every bit as roundly booed at Easter Road as Rangers' ditties from the other side.

There's a really strong dislike of Celtic among the Hibs support, I think partly because of the history of the formation of the Glasgow club and also because people from outside assume there must be friendliness between them, which drives Hibs fans crackers. Not sure how Hearts fans feel about the 'Diet Huns' moniker that they have (do a Google image search for that; the spoof advert is kind of amusing!).