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    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
    You just can't judge a shirt on these mock ups. I especially don't understand how anyone could buy one based on them, unless they buy every season's shirt regardless.

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      Originally posted by EIM View Post
      Manufacturers will have to do something to stop Chinese counterfeits becoming even more popular. 75 when the same shirt is available for under 20 is not sustainable.
      Manchester supporting Communism. plus ca change.*

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        Manchester is red, innit.

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          By counterfeits do you mean ones actually intended to pass as genuine, or the Italian type ones where part of the point is to show you're not such a schmuck as to shell out for the official shirt

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            Originally posted by Nesta View Post
            By counterfeits do you mean ones actually intended to pass as genuine, or the Italian type ones where part of the point is to show you're not such a schmuck as to shell out for the official shirt
            Intended to pass as genuine. To all intents and purposes the real thing, but quarter of the price and falls apart after three washes.

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              Originally posted by Various Artist View Post
              Yes, that's in no way crimson, there's too much of an orangey-pink tinge. What would we call that? Dark salmon? Lobster bisque? Sunburn?
              I'd go for coral.

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                Originally posted by Nesta View Post
                By counterfeits do you mean ones actually intended to pass as genuine, or the Italian type ones where part of the point is to show you're not such a schmuck as to shell out for the official shirt
                I've never heard of this knowing post-modernist concept of wearing fakes you describe.

                Do you mean the shabby knock offs sold in market stalls or souvenir shops to fool tourists or placate gullible children?

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                  I was under the impression they were more common in Italy than genuine replicas, although someone who lives in/better knows Italy can put me right I'm sure

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                    Oh, they're undoubtedly a more common phenomenon in Italy. I've just never got the sense they're being worn with the attitude you ascribe to the wearers.

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                      When I was a regular attendee at San Siro a decade ago, I found it interesting that Milan had started selling official "knock-off"-style shirts – i.e. made in that cheap nylon with every element part of the print (no sewn-on badge, affixed sponsors, no different material collar, etc.) – for about 25 euro, while the proper replica was 80 or whatever. Not sure if other Italian clubs went down the same route, but certainly makes a lot of sense given the size of the market in terms of actual knock-offs on city-centre market stalls.

                      I've noticed some of the bigger clubs (and also national teams) over here now seem to do something similar – you can buy the replica, or for 20–30 quid more get the player-issue version (not sure what makes such a vast difference, as the replica will still have the sewn-on badge, etc.). But with the replicas still being about 60 quid, they still haven't quite grasped the Milan idea.

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                        Originally posted by Beagle View Post

                        I'd go for coral.

                        I'd agree.

                        Welcome to the board.

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                          Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                          I'd go for coral.
                          A strong debut, Beagle. Welcome to the boards, I hope you'll stick around. What's your favourite biscuit?

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                            Heh, didn't see NS had got in ahead of me there as it was 'over the page'.

                            I'd disagree, for what it's worth, as I think of 'coral' as being a paler shade. But it's worth debating.

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                              Originally posted by Various Artist View Post
                              Heh, didn't see NS had got in ahead of me there as it was 'over the page'.

                              I'd disagree, for what it's worth, as I think of 'coral' as being a paler shade. But it's worth debating.

                              "Coral red," maybe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerise_(color)
                              Last edited by Nocturnal Submission; 27-05-2022, 11:59.

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                                Oh, that's fair enough, yes!

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                                  The Barry kit has a bit of the Warwickshire about it:



                                  Though the Warks kit is a bit braver with the pattern (from the image at least) and better for it.

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                                    I don't think that the classic Italian market stall knock offs were ever intended to pass as genuine. When we first arrived in the early 2000s, one could get them for as little as 5 euro (never more than 10) and they were intended as cheap souvenirs, cheap outerwear for foreign tourists and something that a local might wear as a beach cover up or to play five a side. I don't recall ever seeing one at the ground in the hundred or so Inter games I attended (though as we have discussed before, replica kits of any kind were much rarer than they were in England at the same time).

                                    Better (but still very cheap - 20 euro or less) replicas began to arrive in the mid-2000s, originally from Thailand, and I think it was those that caused commercially savvy clubs like Milan to adopt the practice that Jobi describes.

                                    Kit manufacturers often have real issues with the "truly affordable" replicas that Jobi notes, because they are uncomfortable with the idea that an "authentic" Nike or adidas product could cost only 25 euro. Which has led in the US to the "shirsey" concept, that of a t-shirt with a crest/logo and player name and number that usually retails for 25 USD. The replica jersey market is usually structured like that for the England shirt, with a "replica" for less than USD 100 and an "authentic" version (which may or may not be "player issue") for more like USD 125-150 (prices will differ by sport, hockey sweaters have always been significantly more expensive than kits for other sports).

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                                      That's interesting to note about the "shirsey" concept. I actually saw that over here for the first time just the other week, in the official shop at Wembley where they sell such things – plain white or blue cotton t-shirts with the England badge and a front-of-shirt small number on the front, and a player name and number on the back (yours for just 28).

                                      While checking the site just now, I see that the FA are also doing the player/replica split – you can buy the "stadium shirt" (i.e. replica) for 75, and the "vapour match shirt" for 115. Not sure what a "vapour match" is, sounds to me like they're just blowing smoke.

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                                        Originally posted by Various Artist View Post
                                        A strong debut, Beagle. Welcome to the boards, I hope you'll stick around. What's your favourite biscuit?
                                        Thank you. I'm a long-time lurker, with very little of actual interest to contribute. I can't even pick a biscuit. What a failure of a human being.

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                                          Yes, welcome Beagle.

                                          Fine avatar, too.

                                          I think that the advent of shirseys at Wembley is evidence that this type of merchandising is increasingly outsourced to/influenced by the manufacturers (as opposed to the clubs/federations) and that they are trying to export concepts that have been successful at separating punters from their money in other markets.

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                                            Originally posted by Beagle View Post

                                            Thank you. I'm a long-time lurker, with very little of actual interest to contribute. I can't even pick a biscuit. What a failure of a human being.
                                            Perhaps you like all types of biscuit equally. An admirable trait. (Especially if it means we can palm the malted milks and fig newtons off on you.)

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                                              Mrs Lobachevsky is very fond of Malted Milk but very unlikely to show interest in OTF

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                                                Shirsey? I'm not having that at all. TonTon will be livid.

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                                                  What is it, EIM ?
                                                  Last edited by TonTon; 27-05-2022, 17:00.

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