Penalties

[Nocturnal Submission]

For pretty obvious reasons I've been thinking about this subject in the last few hours. Specifically, the assumption that the best penalty takers are forwards and attacking midfielders, (see the decision to try to get Rashford and Sancho on to the pitch last night).

The best penalty of the night was Maguire's and I can think of lots of examples of defenders who were excellent from the spot. From my club, Leboeuf, Luiz and Ashley Cole all spring to mind, but there are lots of others around the game. Central defenders seem to be able to strike the ball cleanly and hard, whilst full backs often put it in the corner or side of the net.

Conversely some of the forwards, especially those who's game is more about subtlety than 20-yard blooters, don't seem to be able to strike the ball with any great authority or precision.

Anything in this, do you think, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Uncle Ethan]

There is considerable merit to the theory of walking up and belting it as hard as you can down the middle.

[ad hoc]

Is there an "assumption that the best penalty takers are forwards and attacking midfielders"? This is the first time I've heard it suggested

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/JackGrealish/status/1414522271859888132?s=20

[Snake Plissken]

I think that the percentage play is "get it on target and fool the keeper into diving the wrong way". It doesn't matter how softly you hit it if the keeper is heading away from the ball.

[Janik]

There is. It is based on the assumption that these are the players most used to and experienced at scoring goals. But as suggested it may not bear particular examination.

The best two penalty takers I can remember in the English game of recent years were Matt Le Tissier, an attacking midfielder or forward, and Graham Alexander. Who played defensive midfield or full-back.

[jwdd27]

Statistically the best place to put a penalty is above waist height and central. I'm all for blasting the penalty, but I think coaches don't like it because they can go over the bar, or the taker over compensates keeping it down and scuffs it.

But I agree, I like a defender just running up and blasting it, or indeed a centre half penalty specialist, as Andy Crosby was for Scunthorpe, and Steve Bruce was for a season or so at Man United.

[tee rex]

I'm sure somebody's done the research so I'd like to see the results: farting around in the run-up, percentage failure. I'm assuming it's high, but of course that could just be because those failures are repeated and remembered more.

[Janik]

An expert from an interview Graham Alexander gave to the Manchester Evening News back in 2012. Just prior to an England-Italy European Championships. That England lost. On penalties. Scoring their first two, and then missing the rest.


Alexander... told MEN Sport: "I never practiced with a goalkeeper, because it affects your mindset. That way you get into patterns and second guessing.


Graham Alexander's top penalty tips

:: Pracitice - don't just hope for the best

:: Practice without a goalkeeper so as not to be sidetracked

:: Practice one penalty as much as possible - my favourite was high and wide - but have other techniques to fall back on

:: Be 100 per cent committed to your penalty - you'll never forgive yourself if your change your mind

"You don't want to get into mind games. For me the keeper was irrelevant. They try to put you off, they talk to you. If you take the penalty you want to take you'll score - even if they go the right way.

"I'm a believer in positive thinking - know your penalty and stick to it. You must believe you can score. Say to yourself 'I am scoring this goal'. You might not always but at least you're giving yourself the best chance.

"Even if you know the goalkeeper has done homework on you, still take your penalty. You have to be 100 per cent committed.

"If you do it that way and you do miss, it's much easier to handle than if you've changed your mind midway."

[Janik]

"my favourite was high and wide" - so, this one, then:-

Should load automatically at 2m51s, but if it doesn't skip forward to that time.

No goalie is saving that.

[jwdd27]

Presumably Alexander put those methods in practice after he missed for Scunny in the 1992 play off final.

(That shoot out was similar to last night, the young lads (Alexander, Jason White) stepped up but missed, so a bit harsh, but still...)

[3 Colours Red]

But I agree, I like a defender just running up and blasting it

Julian Dicks was the master of that - it didn't matter whether he went left, right or down the middle. You're not saving it if the ball is travelling at warp factor 9.

[Capybara]

Julian Dicks was the master of that - it didn't matter whether he went left, right or down the middle. You're not saving it if the ball is travelling at warp factor 9.

Indeed. And, if the 'keeper does save it, it's a great save and you are unlikely to get any criticism.

[tee rex]

The Europa League final now seems more extraordinary than ever, a false dawn of nerveless perfection. In this tournament, only France v Switzerland had a strong set (until Mbappe missed the last). The rest conformed to historical norms.

[Sporting]

:: Be 100 per cent committed to your penalty - you'll never forgive yourself if your change your mind

For me, it's interesting in what Le Tissier has to say about how to take pens. He only had two methods: sidefooting the ball to the bottom right-hand corner, or to the bottom left-hand corner. He reckons that putting the ball to the keeper's left was his preferred way, as the angle meant that the shot could curl in a little (also, as most players in general are right-handed, going left might give you a bit more of an advantage). Even more interesting is that Le Tissier said he would change his mind about which corner he was going to put it, if he saw that the keeper had already committed himself, against the usual advice of coaches. Whatever your view on this, it worked for the man from Guernsey: 47 out of 48 successful penalties.

[tee rex]

But how many in shootouts? Different dynamic, really.

[hobbes]

I know there's pressure etc. But I'm forever surprised that a professional footballer can't put the ball from 12 yards into a spot the size of a postage stamp, 999 times out of a thousand.
Surely every penalty should be going right into the top corner, skimming bar and post, be that left or right. The keeper isn't EVER getting there.
(This is no criticism of the guys who took them last night, more of penalty taking in general.)

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The Europa League final now seems more extraordinary than ever, a false dawn of nerveless perfection. In this tournament, only France v Switzerland had a strong set (until Mbappe missed the last). The rest conformed to historical norms.

This is what I was thinking about. Players all practice penalties, and are technically far more consistent than the players of the past. Literally the only way you can fuck up is if you bring on two people to take penalties seconds before the final whistle

[Uncle Ethan]

From my extensive shoot out experience (twice) at Lords 5-a-side, hit 'em hard into the top corner. Unsaveable. And pressure is doing it in the same team as two of your sons.

[Greenlander]

Tee Rex nails it as though I wouldn't compare Freight Rover Trophy shoot outs to a Euro Final, Paul Wotton (also the kind of defender that believed if the keeper got in the way he'd end up in the net too) actually doubles his number of misses - twice in almost fifty regulation kicks, two misses out of three for shoot outs.

[Janik]

But how many in shootouts? Different dynamic, really.

None in international shoot-outs I would imagine. I don't think Le Tissier was ever in a squad for a finals tournament, was he? But he probably took part in some shoot-outs in the FA Cup or League Cup over the course of his career. Presumably including the "And they can't catch Tim Flowers" Manchester United-Southampton FA Cup 4th Round match that Southampton won on a shoot-out.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

The point about what pro players "ought" to be able to do 99 times out of 100 on autopilot is true of a lot of sports though. Golfers holing a five foot putt, or tennis players failing to get first serve in on a crucial point. The difference is reaction to pressure, and fear of failure, and that's really hard to coach, or even practice. Managers really can mitigate it by making a judgment on who they think has "got the bottle today", which is what Southgate said he did last night and I trust that. Grealish has twittered that he demanded to take one but I suppose the judgment was that he'd just had someone try and break his knee.

[Janik]

Hmm, well, Le Tissier played in that match, which took place in 1992. But he didn't take a penalty in the shoot-out. This was likely because he was down to take Southampton's fifth (on the basis that you give your biggest pressure kick to your best taker...), but the Saints had already won by then after Ryan Giggs became the second Man United player not to score.

[Janik]

The point about what pro players "ought" to be able to do 99 times out of 100 on autopilot is true of a lot of sports though. Golfers holing a five foot putt, or tennis players failing to get first serve in on a crucial point. The difference is reaction to pressure, and fear of failure, and that's really hard to coach, or even practice. Managers really can mitigate it by making a judgment on who they think has "got the bottle today", which is what Southgate said he did last night and I trust that. Grealish has twittered that he demanded to take one but I suppose the judgment was that he'd just had someone try and break his knee.

That, and kicking a football accurately seems to be more difficult than people expect. Think about how many seemingly badly taken corners there are. The skill levels involved are being underestimated, I think.

[blameless]

Julian Dicks was the master of that - it didn't matter whether he went left, right or down the middle. You're not saving it if the ball is travelling at warp factor 9.

Speaking of West Ham fullbacks, Ray Stewart had an insanely good conversion rate for penalties - 70 out of 75, or something of that nature.

Again, he was of the "if the keeper gets a hand to it, make sure it costs him a finger" school.