1982 World Cup replayed

[G-Man]

So, how might things have turned out if the 1982 World Cup, the first with 24 teams, had operated according to the four best third-placed teams going through, instead of that silly second round group affair. For convenience, I'll use the draw as per the present Euros.

The group results stand as it happened. Of course, in that system, Germany might have chosen to try and beat Austria by more than 1-0, or Austria might have decided to fight back and draw... But a German victory by one goal is not implausible, so let's ride with that.

Ranking of 3rd placed teams:

Algeria 5-5 4 points
Hungary 12-6 3 pts
Scotland 8-8 3 pts
Yugoslavia 3-3 3pts
Cameroon 1-1 3 pts
Czechoslovakia 2-4 2pts

[G-Man]

ROUND TWO

Italy vs Austria
Poland vs Argentina
Belgium vs Yugoslavia
West Germany vs Scotland
France vs Spain
Brazil vs Algeria
England vs USSR
N. Ireland vs Hungary

[G-Man]

Italy vs Austria
We know how well Italy played in the second round groups. Austria, on the other hand, were not very good.

Poland vs Argentina
Poland marched through their 2nd round group, whereas Argentina were lost their two games.

Belgium vs Yugoslavia
That was a good Belgian side. But I had forgotten Yugoslavia were even there.

West-Germany vs Scotland
With the best will in the world, I don't see Scotland win this.

France vs Spain
France weren't very good in the 2nd group. But Spain were atrocious. After extra-time, France.

Brazil vs Algeria
Pity Germany didn't beat Austria 3-0.

England vs USSR
The tight one. England were good in the group stage, but so was the USSR. I think England edge this.

N. Ireland vs Hungary
How did Hungary finish third in their group?

[G-Man]

Quarter-Finals

Brazil vs France
I don't know how to call that. But France didn't have enforcers like the Italians who'd destroy the Brazilian flair players. I think Brazil, would edge this, but it would be a classic, like their encounter at the same stage four years later.

West-Germany vs Poland
The German efficiency we saw in the second round would win out here, with both sides quite evenly matched with flair players. It would be a tight game, but I give it to West-Germany.

Italy vs Belgium
We saw what Italy did to Brazil and Argentina. So obviously 1-0 with a Rossi goal in the 118th minute.

Hungary vs England
Another dull 0-0, with the winning goal coming in extra-time. If Robson stayed fit.

[Jah Womble]

Was it really ten whole years ago that we had that 'reimagined' 1982 World Cup on here? (Link?)

[G-Man]

Semi-finals

Brazil vs West-Germany
Germany can't beat Brazil, 7-1 in every semi-final. West-Germany struggled against Brazil in friendlies in the couple of years leading up to Espana 82, and they'd lose here.

Italy vs England
We saw what Italy did to Brazil and Argentina etc... And to Poland.

[Kevin S]

This is important work, kudos G-Man.

[G-Man]

FINAL:

Brazil vs Italy
We saw what Italy did to Brazil etc. But would they do so in the final?

[G-Man]

This is important work, kudos G-Man.

Important indeed, I'm on a deadline, but this takes priority.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

If it had ended up Brazil-Italy in the final I think we might have seen a similar game to the (effective) quarter-final in real life, yeah. Don't forget Brazil only needed a draw in the real life game, equalised twice but were unable to hold on to what they needed, and by the second half of the final Italy were tearing holes in a far superior (to Brazil') German defence.

[tee rex]

I'm backing that Northern Ireland side to beat Hungary, flat track bullies. Then lose to England, so no major change, except commentators could say "last 8" instead of "second stage" when reminiscing in 2016.

Italy still win it.

[Sean of the Shed]

Brazil vs Algeria
Pity Germany didn't beat Austria 3-0.

Meaning Algeria play Italy instead?

[G-Man]

Cameroon had just been unlucky not to beat Italy, who also couldn't beat Peru. So I have a hunch that Italy rose above themselves against the big name opponents, but might have struggled against a side like Algeria.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

If 1974 and 1978 had played out with proper quarter-finals and semi-finals instead of those daft second stage groups, 1974 would have ended up precisely the same. 1978, however, was the first year in which penalty shootouts were potentially going to be used, and raises the prospect (using real results) that we might have seen the very first of those in a World Cup in a quarter-final between West Germany and Italy, and possibly again in a semi-final between the Germans and the Dutch. And in the bottom half, a semi-final shootout between the hosts and Brazil.

[Satchmo Distel]

An England team that couldn't score against already eliminated Spain would likely have needed penalties to beat USSR or Hungary. I think they're toss-ups.

[imp]

Typical of Scotland's luck - if we'd had the format of four years later, we'd have qualified. I've never ever thought about this, not for a single second of my life, but thanks G-Man, now you've got me even more rankled about the fates having it in for us. And of course we'd have beaten West Germany (they were shite in this World Cup, despite reaching the final), and then Poland, and because we lost 4-1 to Brazil in the group stage we'd have known exactly how to go about beating them the second time around. And Italy in the final? No way we'd have failed having got that far. Willie Miller would have done a job on Rossi. Winners? Scotland!

Time to close this thread.

[lambers]

In the scenario of knowing third with three points was good enough, I'm sure Scotland wouldn't have lost their final game by a single goal to become the fifth best third place team. It would definitely have gone down as you describe

[Satchmo Distel]

The Soviets could have lost that 2-0 and still been OK.

[Nesta]

Wait, what? They'd have been out with two points.

[G-Man]

I replayed the 1974 and 1978 World Cups with knock-out-stages instead of the groups, according to the perfect 1970 formula. All pairings in that draw actually took place in the groups

Depressingly, only one of the eight quarter-finals is undecided. Moire exciting, all possible semi-finals in 1978 are open-ended.

[G-Man]

1974:

Quarter-finals

East Germany vs Brazil 0-1
Netherlands v Argentina 4-0
Yugoslavia v West Germany 0-2
Poland vs Sweden 2-0

Semis:

Brazil vs Netherlands 0-2
West Germany vs Poland 1-0

Final:

Netherlands vs West Germany 1-4 (or 1-3, 0-3, or 0-2, depending on which four big refereeing decisions you choose to discount)

[G-Man]

1978:

Quarter-finals

Italy vs West Germany 0-0
Austria vs Netherlands 1-5
Poland vs Argentina 0-2
Peru vs Brazil 0-3


Who'd have won the Italy vs West-Germany game? Italy were the better side -- almost the entire team would win the World Cup in 1982, but also fail at the Euros in 1980. But Germany had some real match-winners (Fischer, Rummenigge, Hölzenbein). Which side would have had the greater stamina in extra-time? Who'd have won a penalty shoot-out (two years after Germany lost theirs in Belgrade)? And, all the other three "quarter-finals" winners had placed second in their group, so there was a theme going on there.


Semis:

Italy vs Netherlands 1-2
OR
West Germany vs Netherlands 2-2

Argentina vs Brazil 0-0


If we have Italy go through, they'll lose the semi-final. But West-Germany vs Netherlands? In the groyp game, Germany led for much of the game, and twice the Dutch had to come from behind. And then there was the bizarre red card for Nanninga just before the end of the 90 minutes. Ten Dutch vs 11 Germans? Hmmm, that German side was as unpredictable as the one today: brilliant one day, frustratingly poor the next. They had a poor team spirit and hated their accommodation. It was a depressed side, whereas the Netherlands looked cohesive. And they had even better match-winners than West Germany. But with ten men through extra-time? Too close to call, I think.


And Argentina vs Brazil? I wouldn't want to call it, but in extra-time, home advantage might swing it Argentina's way.

Final:
Who can tell? But in an alternate universe in which West-Germany win their knock-out games in extra-time, I have Argentina winning in normal time.