Stuff Your Superleague.

[DCI Harry Batt]

I thought I'd just corrected you.

[EIM]

I thought I'd just corrected you.

You disagreed with me.

[ursus arctos]

And those fans could stop paying their quotas for one institute and set up their own if they haven't been given a say on their club's future.

That would be those fans that have massively approved Florentino Perez' change of the club statutes to allow him to effectively become President for Life and those who have consistently elected the President that offered them the shiniest baubles.

There is a reason why the Spanish clubs were much more confident in their ability to get this through then the German clubs.

[Bored Of Education]

Of course his club is kicking him to the kerb and of course he's losing the club. The nature of the club will change. If your favourite Italian restaurant stops serving Italian food and instead it sells tupperware instead, it's not your Italian restaurant anymore. Even if you can buy the tupperware.

The restaurant analogy, of course, doesn't work but, even if it did, you would fuck that restaurant off. Which any of the supporters can do if they feel as strongly as that. However the fact remains that the clubs are still in existence and they have just changed the fixtures they play from the EPL and "Champions" league to the Super League. That and what EIM said.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think that is absolutely awful and I can see why Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd supporters are incensed. However, it isn't a Wimbledon situation and also just hoping that the FA and UEFA cave into whatever demands these fuckers want is the sort of attitude that will see this issue coming up again and again.

Another point has just come to me which may not have been covered previously - Spurs? Fucking Spurs?? If everything else isn't going to discredit and devalue this competition, it's their involvement. You may as well have Rangers and Celtic in.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

I remember LUHG graffitti, in gold and green. Some of that's still there, if you look right on the tram from Cornbrook to the Quays. Fading now, mind. No-one seems to have repainted it.

[DCI Harry Batt]

You disagreed with me.

Is that different? I suppose it could be. Do you mean "persuaded"? Maybe not, something more like "provided an argument" or "provided some contrary evidence"?

[hobbes]

Lessons have been learned from every fan owned club, supporters direct have produced and refined a model that works. Why wouldn't you want to contribute ?50 or so a year to have a share in a club that would truly be your club?

Why would I?

[EIM]

I remember LUHG graffitti, in gold and green. Some of that's still there, if you look right on the tram from Cornbrook to the Quays.

It probably wasn't it gold and green. LUHG was a movement started in 2005 to fight the takeover. It was a battle for the soul and autonomy of the club. Green and gold started in 2010 and was pissing and moaning about transfer spending and a way of lining swag men's pockets.

[jwdd27]

I'm sure it's a conspiracy - float an absolutely ridiculous, hugely unpopular idea (European Super League) to lessen the opposition to a previously floated, slightly less ridiculous idea which achieves many of the same aims (expanded CL with practically guaranteed entry for the big boys). Like someone threatening to break both your legs, then only breaking an arm (well, it could have been worse).
They're shifting football's Overton window.

[EIM]

Is that different? I suppose it could be. Do you mean "persuaded"? Maybe not, something more like "provided an argument" or "provided some contrary evidence"?

I'd take persuasion or any of those other things. Or even just an explanation.

[ursus arctos]

By the way, the first rule change that any SuperLeague would institute would be some kind of salary cap, which would be both much easier to do in a closed shop and much easier to defend legally.

[steveeeeeeeee]

Why would I?

For the same kind of reason you would contribute ?20 a year to keep OTF going. It's something you love, you want it to continue the way you love it, you don't want it to disappear up its own arse.

[EIM]

For the same kind of reason you would contribute ?20 a year to keep OTF going. It's something you love, you want it to continue the way you love it, you don't want it to disappear up its own arse.

There are two fan owned teams in Liverpool already. AFC Liverpool and City of Liverpool. Both have their issues. Neither are attracting the sort of crowds FC United used to. But then before covid FC United weren't attracting the sort of crowds FC United used to.

Every time a governing body do something fucking stupid, which is often, fans of FCUM prepare themselves for an influx of new members, disillusioned and disenfranchised. None come. Because anyone prone to that sort of principled stand jumped off the carousel years ago.

It's a shame, because although it's not a perfect model, or not as good a model as lots involved in it think it is, it's still probably the best there is.

[Patrick Thistle]

For anyone who wants to read the details...

https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/1383907017908047875?s=19

[Satchmo Distel]

This is the salient point isnt it. Do fans of international football watch because of national identity or familiarity with big club names? My gut instinct is the former-indeed the presence of lower league flags at England games and the abuse aimed at big club name players in times of stress suggests the national football team support would hold up well in the absence of those from the 6 clubs looking to flee. How many of the national team play for them anyway? Harry Kane say would miss playing for England more than an international tournament would miss him is my hunch.

I'm not so sure. England has always (at least in my lifetime) fielded its best players, so we just don't have a comparable era with which to judge how well a second string England would be supported. I certainly don't Kane (or anyone else) would ditch a megabucks BRC contract for a tournament that lasts a month every two years. But I also don't think FIFA would ever ban the players that it needs to make the World Cup a tournament containing (almost) all the world's best players, although it would make the tournament far more open (Japan in the final, maybe?).

[Patrick Thistle]

It looks to me like utter bluff given how they want to still play in the relevant domestic leagues.

[My Name Is Ian]

Spurs are part of who I am. My family was from the same part of North London for at least four generations. I lived the first five years of my life in Lower Edmonton, a fifteen minute walk from White Hart Lane. I've never been a season ticket holder - I haven't been at all since 2012 - but I've had spells when I was a semi-regular. So I get it, those ties run deep, even if you don't go.

I lived the next five years of my life in Enfield. Enfield, the first club I went to see, lost their ground in 1999 and the supporters voted to walk away and form a new club. That was twenty years ago, this year. They've got a ground of their own now, and they do a lot of good work in their local community. But Southbury Road ain't coming back, and I loved that place.

If I have to cut that emotional tie with Spurs, I'll have to cut that tie. I have no idea whether an AFC Spurs would get going - I mean, Enfield are only four miles away and nearer the M25, so there wouldn't be much point in me getting involved with AFC Spurs if they're at the same level - but I guess I'd just follow Enfield's results, though that might change if or when I start taking my kids to matches. If AFC Spurs were in the League, I might be able to justify cheering both.

But while I won't be able to avoid Spurs scores (though I might want to, regardless), if that emotional tie goes, it goes. I completely understand if others can't do that, though. Like I say, I've not been to a Spurs match in nine years, but it's something baser than that in me, more an identity thing. But, you know, I'm not the emotional investment police.

For all of that, though, they have to be expelled from all other competitions. Sponsors (and quite possibly broadcasters) are going to be seething, but who the fuck knows where all of that ends up. But I don't know whether they've overegged their pudding. Were they prepared for such an immediately waspish backlash from the all the leagues? Were they expecting condemnation from the Prime Minister? They must have known it wouldn't be popular with fans (but who gives a fuck what we think), but I can't help but think that there's no master plan going on here, more a whole heap of incompetence.

Governing bodies usually stick together. If UEFA have said this, FIFA kind of back to back them, I'd have thought. We'll see, though.

[Flynnie]

For anyone who wants to read the details...

https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/1383907017908047875?s=19

I’ve seen some people say this is just posturing for the CL negotiations, but have they ever gone this far before? It sure seems like they’re actually trying to set this up.

[Patrick Thistle]

The branding is shit enough for it to be a real thing.

[Satchmo Distel]

If the five invited clubs do far better than five of the Founders, whom do they expel to make way for fresh clubs?

[ursus arctos]

It's a bit more formal, though Silvio went at least this far back in the day. An important question is just what kind of financial commitment they have from JPM et al.

The comms strategy is interesting. They could have put those out this morning, but decided instead to leak the news and get UEFA and the federations to react first.

[My Name Is Ian]

That aged well.

They're planning on starting in August. I guess they must be trying to hardball the leagues into forcing them to stay because it's so soon.

[Patrick Thistle]

https://twitter.com/RamsgateFC/status/1383812389842219013?s=19

[ursus arctos]

If the five invited clubs do far better than five of the Founders, whom do they expel to make way for fresh clubs?

The founders are non-relegatable

The Basketball Euroleague already works this way

[ursus arctos]

That's a nice badge (though I would lose the clip art football)