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It's Thursday night and the feeling's right - Europa League 2021

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    Looking back, I feel like Solskjaer probably needed better tactics than happy birthday Matt Busby. Very poor.

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      Tyldesley had an absurd line about Man U being given more energy by knowing they were carrying the legacy of Best, Charlton, etc. The old myth that you're conscious of the history of the shirt when you're playing for a BRC.

      This is the first European final Man U have lost to a team that wasn't the best ever (Barcelona 2009-11). They've won 4, lost 3. Wins: Busby, Ferguson (3), er, Mourinho.

      Played in 2017 and 2021: Pogba, Rashford, Mata (sub). Nine changes to the starting XI, no improvement on the night.

      % of wins in all competitions: Mourinho 58.33, OGS 55.63 (Wiki).
      Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 27-05-2021, 09:27.

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        Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
        Not a change in the rule, but a significant change in how seriously it is being enforced in the last two to three seasons
        Did a greater insistence on not coming off the line go along with allowing keepers to jump about and move side to side on the line?

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          I think so, but am not certain. There may have been more than one refereeing directive on this.

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            De Gea was so unconvincing last night that even the 'move side to side on the line' was very half-hearted.

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              Two of Villareal's pens last night were of the "smash it straight down the middle" variety, which the takers looked pretty committed to in their run-ups. De Gea might have saved them if he'd literally just stayed still.

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                As the shootout wore on de Gea more and more resembled a character in a Sky Atlantic mini-series haunted by his own self-destructive insecurities and played by Benedict Cumberbatch.

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                  The standard of penalty taking at the top level these days is extraordinary. It's testament to the fact that even a sub left back at a top club is likely to be technically excellent, highly trained and highly practiced. It's somehow apt in the modern game that two teams can nullify each other for 120 minutes, then see all outfield players complete the trivial task of scoring a penalty before it comes down to deciding which goalkeeper is better with his feet.

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                    Man Utd should have signed Diego Alves on a short term loan.

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                      Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                      Tyldesley had an absurd line about Man U being given more energy by knowing they were carrying the legacy of Best, Charlton, etc. The old myth that you're conscious of the history of the shirt when you're playing for a BRC.

                      This is the first European final Man U have lost to a team that wasn't the best ever (Barcelona 2009-11). They've won 4, lost 3. Wins: Busby, Ferguson (3), er, Mourinho.

                      Played in 2017 and 2021: Pogba, Rashford, Mata (sub). Nine changes to the starting XI, no improvement on the night.

                      % of wins in all competitions: Mourinho 58.33, OGS 55.63 (Wiki).
                      And that's ultimately the question that has to be asked about Solskjaer - does he have the steel or tactical capacity to challenge Klopp or Guardiola for the title next season? They certainly don't look remotely near the level required to catch City, and the manner in which Liverpool finished the season suggests they seem far more likely to be in Premier League contention. OGS has had three years to prove himself, and while there has been minor progress, he isn't the man to take things to the next level, at a time when far more experienced managers such as Allegri and Conte are available.

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                        I'm not particularly bothered losing the final like this, and I'm quite delighted for Villarreal.

                        Having said that, Villarreal should have finished the game with 10 men. That foul by Foyth on Shaw was criminal. That was as red a card as I've ever seen. What was VAR doing? Certainly not helping a ref who generally was out of his depth.

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                          Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                          I think so, but am not certain. There may have been more than one refereeing directive on this.
                          Referee to thread...

                          Keepers can move about, provided they are not touching the posts, crossbar or net when the ball is kicked:

                          "The defending goalkeeper must remain on the goal line, facing the kicker, between the goalposts, without touching the goalposts, crossbar or goal net, until the ball has been kicked."

                          As for feet and coming off the line:

                          "When the ball is kicked, the defending goalkeeper must have at least part of one foot touching, or in line with, the goal line."

                          This was introduced to allow keepers to have one foot completely in front of the goal line to aid in 'pushing off' to make a save, so you would think they would have more chance in saving a penalty.

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                            Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                            Two of Villareal's pens last night were of the "smash it straight down the middle" variety, which the takers looked pretty committed to in their run-ups. De Gea might have saved them if he'd literally just stayed still.
                            But if a keeper adopted the strategy of standing still at every penalty in the assumption that at some point a player will kick one down the middle, then the penalty takers would always know just to place the kick to either side... Still, I wonder how many a given keeper would save if they always adopted this strategy for in-game penalties. Would they stop more overall than by trying to guess left or right? (This would have to be an amateur keeper, though - if a professional keeper tried it, it wouldn't take much research to work out their approach.)

                            As for BI's point about the 'push off' giving goalkeepers a better chance of saving penalties - maybe that was the theory, but I think they're so wary of making a great save and then having the VA fucking R rule it out, because their toe left the goal-line a micro-second too soon, that they perhaps now err on the side of caution and hesitate a moment too long.

                            We should also refrain from generalisations based on a single and definitely exceptional shootout. I haven't noticed more or less penalties being converted since the law change. The keeper's decision also has no effect on a player blazing high or wide - last night's 22 kicks were also exceptional because every single one was on the frame. Even de Gea's, though I don't think that will be much of a consolation to him right now.

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                              Peter Schmeichel said last night that he always worked out a sequence beforehand that he stuck to regardless of the kicker's history or behaviour. This is counter-intuitive because I'd have thought you'd make an educated guess from the run-up in some cases.

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                                Originally posted by imp View Post
                                since the law change
                                So the actual rule has actually changed? I used to keep up with these things but I stopped.

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                                  Originally posted by TonTon View Post

                                  So the actual rule has actually changed? I used to keep up with these things but I stopped.
                                  Yes, since 2019 the goalkeeper only has to have one foot above or on the line when the ball is kicked.

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                                    Ta.

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                                      Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                      Very good!

                                      I think the authorities need to flip this rule and allow the keepers to move a little otherwise 11-10 is going to become rather tedious.
                                      What does 'move a little' mean. When does move a little become move a lot & who judges the difference?

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                                        One step forward during the run-up.

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