Jim McLean

[Lang Spoon]

Eh I was talking about the 80s. Aberdeen were comparatively richer than Dundee Utd, and Aberdeen as a city was the richest place in Scotland during the 80s oil boom. This is a time when Edinburgh was in economic doldrums, let alone Glasgow.

[Mr Beast]

My dad played for Dundee United. Even scored a hat trick on his debut. But as Lang said they weren’t even a big deal in their street at the time and Jim McLean changed that dynamic in the city, maybe forever. People of a certain age remember that team, certainly my friends down here respect United. They’re far more surprised when you tell them both Dundee clubs got to European cup semi finals.

Ferguson obviously deserves tremendous credit for what he did at Aberdeen, but Scottish football has never really been the same since the mid 80s. That Hearts collapse on the final day, amusing though it was if you had jam tarts supporting friends, was the last chance for anyone else. That’s not a sustainable structure.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Aberdeen was like Qatar in the 1980s. I had a friend whose Dad was something to do with fixing helicopters at Westland, he went up there for three years and they came back millionaires.

[DPDPDPDP]

Eh I was talking about the 80s. Aberdeen were comparatively richer than Dundee Utd, and Aberdeen as a city was the richest place in Scotland during the 80s oil boom. This is a time when Edinburgh was in economic doldrums, let alone Glasgow.

Sorry, my point was, whilst Aberdeen as a city was booming in the 80’s (I was living and working there at the time in the oil industry), Aberdeen the football club didn’t really capitalize on the city’s wealth. If they had seen the potential that huge corporate sponsorship, wealthy benefactors could have brought to the club, then I believe that these changes would still have had positive changes that would still lasted until today. Unfortunately Dick Donald was chairman at the time, and had been for many years, and he was too busy being a penny pincher to see the potential that was there.

So the comparative wealth of the various cities didn’t matter as none of the clubs had effective commercial teams and income came from gate receipts, season tickets and sales of pies at half time.

[sw2borshch]

Which would be higher if there is more money sloshing about in general. Even though this was more important than telly money at the time, I accept it would probably still only be a marginal factor.

[DPDPDPDP]

Which would be higher if there is more money sloshing about in general. Even though this was more important than telly money at the time, I accept it would probably still only be a marginal factor.

Probably even less than you would think. The were, and sadly still are, many buses from the North East (and Dundee and Edinburgh and Perth and Inverness etc) that go down to Ibrox and Parkhead every fortnight. This would probably have been a bigger pastor

[sw2borshch]

Old Firm autocorrect?

[DPDPDPDP]

Aberdeen was like Qatar in the 1980s. I had a friend whose Dad was something to do with fixing helicopters at Westland, he went up there for three years and they came back millionaires.

I lived in Aberdeen and worked in the oil sector in the 80’s. Yes, there was plenty of money sloshing around the city but sadly no one with business acumen was able to make the connection to football and all that dosh. Murray at Rangers was the first to make this connection- although we all know how that ended!

[DPDPDPDP]

Old Firm autocorrect?

Sorry, yes, the buses all left the cities so than home town fans could go watch their beloved rangers or Celtic.

[DPDPDPDP]

My dad played for Dundee United. Even scored a hat trick on his debut. But as Lang said they weren’t even a big deal in their street at the time and Jim McLean changed that dynamic in the city, maybe forever. People of a certain age remember that team, certainly my friends down here respect United. They’re far more surprised when you tell them both Dundee clubs got to European cup semi finals.

Ferguson obviously deserves tremendous credit for what he did at Aberdeen, but Scottish football has never really been the same since the mid 80s. That Hearts collapse on the final day, amusing though it was if you had jam tarts supporting friends, was the last chance for anyone else. That’s not a sustainable structure.

Wow! A hat trick on his debut. Were you able to be there to see it? Aberdeen should have continued to be a stronger force in the late 80’s had it not been for the appalling decision to replace Ferguson with Ian Porterfield.

[The Red Max]

Him and Alex Ferguson were not the best of friends but clearly pushed one another to their limits which produced such a wonderful period for Scottish football.

Perhaps not 'best of friends', which would have been very difficult given their rivalry at the time, but they had enormous respect for one another, and spoke regularly.
Fergie acknowledged that he & Aberdeen needed Jim McLean & United ( and vice versa) in order to challenge the domination of the OF.

[sw2borshch]

Sorry, yes, the buses all left the cities so than home town fans could go watch their beloved rangers or Celtic.

I used to work with a bloke from Bishop Auckland who was on a coach to Old Trafford every fortnight, there's a lot of it about. Mind, from there there's a lot do the same in a NEly direction too.

[DPDPDPDP]

I used to work with a bloke from Bishop Auckland who was on a coach to Old Trafford every fortnight, there's a lot of it about. Mind, from there there's a lot do the same in a NEly direction too.

oh I know it happens everywhere but it’s especially bad in Scotland with Rangers and Celtic.

[Satchmo Distel]

Journalist James Cameron was raised in Dundee; his father moved there during the 1930s after Cameron's mother died.

[DPDPDPDP]

Journalist James Cameron was raised in Dundee; his father moved there during the 1930s after Cameron's mother died.

Dundee famous for the three “J”’s - jute, jam and journalism. Should be 4 J’s - Jim also. Quite appropriate that he died aged 83 given United’s league triumph in 1983.

[Erskine Bridges]

The oil price collapsed early in 1986 and while it recovered to an extent in around 4-5 years, Aberdeen didn’t see another real boom until around 2012-15 and it’s been desperate since then.

But yes, I’d say the city is better off than most in Scotland and certainly well ahead of Dundee for a long time. And while I don’t have the numbers, I’ll bet you more people travel from the Islands and Inverness than Aberdeen to watch the Old Firm. There is a real antipathy towards Rangers up here.

I came here in 1985 and after about 6 months I asked my boss where all the Council housing was. He told me and I just couldn’t believe him. I thought those were private estates. Where were the burnt out cars? The overgrown gardens containing undernourished weans? The packs of wee brown dugs shiting everywhere? The really crappy, falling apart housing?

To be fair, I was used to Possil and I hadn’t seen Logie, but the Council housing estates in Aberdeen were streets ahead of what I’d seen elsewhere. There were good jobs paying good money but this is a tough city to survive in if you’re not making good money.

However, I think the decision that has killed Scottish football as a competition between more than two teams was changing from sharing gate receipts to keeping all of your own. Scottish teams, even the diddy ones, did well in Europe right up to the mid late eighties but after that they’ve really not featured which has been particularly damaging as the money available from Europe has multiplied.

And yes, I’d agree that AFC never really capitalised on the oil but then I don’t think Aberdeen and the Shire really did either. Well, yes it did but maybe not as much as it should have.

There is a new industrial revolution ongoing which will gather pace hugely over the next decade and beyond which Aberdeen is very well placed to take advantage of. The transition from fossil fuels to renewables will require skilled workers, technical know how and industrial facilities that Aberdeen, probably more than anywhere in Europe, has.

Will Holyrood and Westminster invest the necessary will, effort, cash and tax incentives to make it happen here or will they fanny around and watch it go elsewhere?

Neither the SNP nor the Tories seem to really understand business. The Tories get making money, making things less so.

[Lang Spoon]

Osborne (seemingly wifullfully) cut tax incentives for renewable energy investment, partly perhaps to spite the Nats supporting tidal research in Aberdeen/Shetland and wind energy more widely. Most of the relevant powers regarding energy or taxation don't reside with Holyrood.

[Lang Spoon]

'86 was definitely the watershed moment for the oil industry. Before then my dad was making Stupid money in the North Sea or the Persian gulf, after he was doing agency work that wasn't always regular, even had a year or so of working at fuckin Burntisland docks in the early 90s.

And yeah things were heavy pish with the most recent oil crash, a massive contrast to the decent way workers were treated in the heavily unionised Norwegian fields. But go on St fuckin Tony Benn for setting up the U.K. oil industry as a light touch regulation barely unionised no sovereign wealth fund Wild West.

[multipleman78]

Ferguson obviously deserves tremendous credit for what he did at Aberdeen, but Scottish football has never really been the same since the mid 80s. That Hearts collapse on the final day, amusing though it was if you had jam tarts supporting friends, was the last chance for anyone else. That’s not a sustainable structure.

Aberdeen went to Ibrox in 91 on the last day of the season needing a draw to win the league. Hateley scored twice, Rangers got number 3 of 9 in a row and ever since no one has come as close.

Hearts have had two chances but weren't really in the shake up right at the end. In 97-98 they stayed with the Old Firm into April but faltered just before the finale. Famously in 05-06, they opened the season with 8 wins and 2 draws and then sacked their manager. After that, they lost their initial zest and finished a distant second to Celtic.

[DPDPDPDP]

Aberdeen went to Ibrox in 91 on the last day of the season needing a draw to win the league. Hateley scored twice, Rangers got number 3 of 9 in a row and ever since no one has come as close.

Hearts have had two chances but weren't really in the shake up right at the end. In 97-98 they stayed with the Old Firm into April but faltered just before the finale. Famously in 05-06, they opened the season with 8 wins and 2 draws and then sacked their manager. After that, they lost their initial zest and finished a distant second to Celtic.

Aberdeen had won 8 games in a row before going to Ibrox just needing the draw. Manager Alex Smith changed the team more attacking formation (which had been so successful) and the new formation didn’t work. Also keeper Theo Schnelders was injured which was crucial. The reserve keeper, Michael Watt, was only 20 or so and was clattered a couple of times by Hateley early on - no surprise that no fouls were given. Watt never really recover from this and had a poor game. Having said all that, Aberdeen had their chances, most notably a sitter missed by Peter Van De Ven.

This single match, combined with the appalling appointment of Ian Porterfield to replace Alex Ferguson, sadly was the start of Aberdeen’s long, slow painful decline. 35 years and counting since a non old firm team won the league and I can’t see that situation changing in my lifetime.

[Lang Spoon]

The two games I saw at Pittodrie were in Porterfield's first season, against Hearts and Dundee. At least one was a draw. Tbh I remember the cold more than anything, this was not scintillating football that would keep a 10 year old transfixed.

[DPDPDPDP]

The two games I saw at Pittodrie were in Porterfield's first season, against Hearts and Dundee. At least one was a draw. Tbh I remember the cold more than anything, this was not scintillating football that would keep a 10 year old transfixed.

Lang, the football played by Porterfield’s team was dire. The football would make your eyes bleed! We not only had a great defence but a good team overall, but everything was about the defence. When we scored the first goal, we knew that was our scoring done for the day. The fans came out with a song, to the tune of The Grand Old Duke of York, which went something like

our manager is called Porterfield
he has 11 men
he marches them to the half way line
and marches them back again.

[Simon G]

Why did Hearts sack their manager? I remember their great start, but little else.

[Lang Spoon]

He may have fallen out with Vlad, or it may have been his love of the sauce.

[RobM]

McLean is up there with Ferguson as a manager and that's no attempt to downplay Ferguson's acheivements. Taking United to the UEFA cup final and the brink of a European Cup final before Roma behaved like utter filth was quite frankly astonishing when you look back on it.

When he hit the peak managerially was when I was at my own peak of watching the Hearts. Beating Celtic and Rangers was nothing particularly special at that point but the season Hearts took the title all the way to the last day at Dundee a 1-0 win at Aberdeen and 3-0 at Tanndice were huge, ironic given it was Celtic that pipped us but Aberdeen and United were hugely elevated at that time.

Mclean won't be as widely feted in England having stayed at United (knocking back an approach from Rangers) but he was something else. Aberdeen and United were great teams to watch, not so if you were 16 and they were ripping your own team up for arsepaper, but they were phenomenal. Out of them all Paul Sturrock was the best for me, Mclean had an eye for a player, annoyingly Sturrock was a Hearts fan as a young guy, for all the fact that Mclean was a flawed individual he knitted those guys to ludicrous success for United, he was a great.

He knew his own flaws as well. He admitted in retirement that his family had suffered as a result of his intensity around the game and that he wished he could change that. Heard some of the tales first hand from a friends dad who had played under Mclean at both Dundee clubs and can vouch for the intensity!

A great though, rest easy Jim.