Jim McLean

[torres]

The ex- Dundee United manager has passed away.

A fantastic manager of a brilliant Dundee United team.

[Antepli Ejderha]

That's really sad news, another one claimed by 2020.

[EIM]

What a great photo this is...

[ale]

That run of three titles between Aberdeen & Dundee Utd 1983-1985 is longest run in Scottish game without Glasgow champions. The 35 years since is the longest run the Old Firm have gone as uniterrupted champions.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Dundee United's title win (and subsequent run to the European Cup semi in 1984) was incredible enough, but in many ways reaching the 1986-87 UEFA Cup final, with victories over Barcelona and Monchengladbach, was just as amazing. It would be another 13 years before another British side reached the final of that tournament, Arsene Wenger's Arsenal side in 2000.

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

Neil Forsyth's piece on him is well worth reading:

[Felicity, I guess so]

He's been 'gone' a long time as serious dementia set in years ago but still a very sad day.
There's been money for a statue for quite a while but they were holding on to erect and unveil when the crowds could be there...

[tee rex]

As an example of how little was seen of his team south of the border, here's the classic Spurs-Arsenal League Cup semi from 1987 (2 games, both BBC and ITV coverage). At the very end of the ITV broadcast (jump to 2 hrs 48 mins), there are less than 90 seconds of Dundee United v "Gary Lineker's Barcelona". And that was it, no other coverage of the game. Nice goal though.

[Duncan Gardner]

Sad news. His achievement should be better known esp in England

[CY_Boaby]

What Jim McLean achieved at Dundee Utd was absolutely incredible and a shame his team never got to win a Scottish Cup despite reaching many a final in the 1980s, although I was delighted they cocked it up in 1987. Those great European nights was such a highlight of my childhood and I remember being off school sick so was able watch their 2nd leg European Cup semi-final in Rome live on the BBC (it was an afternoon kick off), only for the live feed to drop and revert back to the snooker.

Aberdeen and Dundee Utd trailblazing in Europe was my main learning tool as to where places were in Europe - it was great hearing and learning about teams I'd never heard of before, like Universitatea Craiova and Hadjuk Split. Him and Alex Ferguson were not the best of friends but clearly pushed one another to their limits which produced such a wonderful period for Scottish football.

But like a lot of managers from that era, he was a hard bastard and a bully. Those horrible and prohibitive long term contracts that he signed kids on was downright nasty and seeing that documentary when he was screaming down the phone to his dugout like some deranged madman to "GET BANNON OFF NOW!!" was a truly frightening watch. It was no surprise when he finally lost it and punched the BBC reporter John Barnes after another game in which Utd had been thumped.

He was your stereotypical dour Scotsman and had his flaws, but RIP Jim. Your Dundee Utd team of the '80s genuinely brightened up my childhood.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Neil Forsyth's piece on him is well worth reading:

That's an excellent piece and a suitable obituary for a great manager.

[slackster]

In the 80s the achievements of McLean’s Tangerines and Fergie's Aberdeen seemed like a changing of the guard - or at least a bit of proper, regular, competition for the Old Firm - was happening north of the border, but it wasn’t to be.

[Erskine Bridges]

Yes not the nicest of individuals but what fantastic achievements.

I was in an absolutely rammed Tannadice for that Barca game. A mate had managed to get tickets but as he was only about 5 foot five and it was just a seething mass of bodies, he missed that incredible goal.

I think Dundee Utd have a played 3 won three against Barca.

[blameless]

I was previously unaware of it, but FIGS' mention of McLean's dementia sadly makes sense - he had been notably absent from public view for a long time, which was odd for such a great manager, even one who held the sporting press in as low a regard as Wee Jum did.

It's also odd to learn that Dundee United's run to the UEFA cup final in 1987 received so little coverage in England (especially as England's own post-Heysel ban was still very much in place), as DUFC's amazing progress dominated coverage of the European tournaments in Scotland to such an extent that it didn't actually dawn on me that Porto had won the 87 European Cup and Ajax the CWC until I read about it in the following month's edition of World Soccer.

What made McLean really special though was that he really had no equivalent in his own country (no, not even Alex Ferguson) - his taking a tiny team to their own league title for the only time in their history and several impressive European runs was far more analogous to managers like Guy Roux at Auxerre or Jaime Pacheco at Boavista.

[Southport Zeb]

I think Dundee Utd have a played 3 won three against Barca.

Played 4 won 4 - both legs when they met in the 1966/67 Fairs Cup and the 1986/87 UEFA Cup (I presume that Barcelona were relived that United failed to qualify for Europe in 2006/07).

The Guardian did a series of podcasts called Forgotten Stories of Football earlier this year, with the Jim McLean years at Dundee United being one of the stories.

[Satchmo Distel]

Maybe the English media assumed that Dundee United only won it because English clubs were banned, which I doubt (the best two English sides, Liverpool and Everton, who were miles ahead of the rest, would have been in the other two competitions)?

[imp]

As an example of how little was seen of his team south of the border, here's the classic Spurs-Arsenal League Cup semi from 1987 (2 games, both BBC and ITV coverage). At the very end of the ITV broadcast (jump to 2 hrs 48 mins), there are less than 90 seconds of Dundee United v "Gary Lineker's Barcelona". And that was it, no other coverage of the game. Nice goal though.

They definitely showed highlights of the away leg, though, because I remember watching them on my tiny b&w set in my living room in Birmingham, and leaping off the sofa when they scored the winner. It's not being massively original to point out that those Dundee United and Aberdeen sides of the 80s represent the last time that Scottish club football was interesting to follow, but it's still a damned shame that the OF stranglehold has been in place for over three decades, and shows no signs of letting up.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

The English teams in that year would have been West Ham, Man United, Sheffield Wednesday and Oxford. None finished in the top ten in England in 1987 (it was the season Man U sacked Big Ron) so I think you're on safe ground to hypothesize that none would have given Dundee United, Barcelona or Gothenburg much of a game either.

[tee rex]

This site is pretty reliable, and it suggests that Dundee United's only live game on English TV was the second leg of the 1987 final, at Tannadice (it's on YouTube).

http://tvset.byethost12.com/utm/itv/....html#European

So a home defeat was seen in full, whereas all the European triumphs along the way over several years were highlights only, if that.

[Mr Beast]

Neil Forsyth's piece on him is well worth reading:

That is a great article, the last couple of paragraphs are very affecting. What he achieved, particularly in Europe, could never be repeated. They played some great stuff, a privilege to see them on many occasions in the 70s and 80s.

[DPDPDPDP]

I was previously unaware of it, but FIGS' mention of McLean's dementia sadly makes sense - he had been notably absent from public view for a long time, which was odd for such a great manager, even one who held the sporting press in as low a regard as Wee Jum did.

It's also odd to learn that Dundee United's run to the UEFA cup final in 1987 received so little coverage in England (especially as England's own post-Heysel ban was still very much in place), as DUFC's amazing progress dominated coverage of the European tournaments in Scotland to such an extent that it didn't actually dawn on me that Porto had won the 87 European Cup and Ajax the CWC until I read about it in the following month's edition of World Soccer.

What made McLean really special though was that he really had no equivalent in his own country (no, not even Alex Ferguson) - his taking a tiny team to their own league title for the only time in their history and several impressive European runs was far more analogous to managers like Guy Roux at Auxerre or Jaime Pacheco at Boavista.

Blameless, whilst McLean was a great Manager, I disagree that he had no equivalent. What McLean did at United was fantastic, their only league title and two league cups, plus getting to the European Cup semi final. However, his achievements pale by comparison to Ferguson’s 3 league titles (Aberdeen had only won the title once before), 4 Scottish Cups, 1 League Cup, 1 ECWC cup and 1 Super Cup.

[Lang Spoon]

Aberdeen was a comparatively wealthy club, from the richest city in Scotland though. United were the second club in a place that's been depressed most of the 20th century.

[Gangster Octopus]

From The Graun.

[Satchmo Distel]

Has the dementia been linked to his playing days?

[DPDPDPDP]

Aberdeen was a comparatively wealthy club, from the richest city in Scotland though. United were the second club in a place that's been depressed most of the 20th century.

Lang Spoon, Aberdeen were hardly a wealthy club (and still aren’t). The fact that the richest city (debatable) is irrelevant because over the years the club has failed miserably to make the most of this. In the Cup Winners Cup winning team, only three players were bought - Weir, McGhee and Strachan - and the latter two were bought for less than ?100,000. Both clubs did great at bringing through established players (and holding on to them) and combining these with great youth systems. Both clubs suffered greatly (and still do), as does the rest of Scottish football, from the glory hunting nature of your average Scottish football fan, who will either support Rangers or Celtic, regardless of where they are from. And it’s getting worse. No club has won the league outside of those two since 1985. And no club is likely to win in it for a long, long time. Sad.