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Weekend watching thread - Sat 21 Nov

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    Another epic Fulham penalty

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      Oh blimey, Fulham. Bet they wish they ‘hadn’t’ been awarded a penalty now.

      But hang on - Loftus-Cheek scrambles one home anyway. 2-3 Everton.

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        I didn't watch this game but was surprised to see Loftus-Cheek listed as a Fulham scorer as I didn't realise he was at the club.

        He seems quite an established player at an advanced stage of his career to be sent on a season's loan, even for renowned stockpilers Chelsea.

        I know he missed a lot of 19/20 with an injury but seems to have played quite a bit after the restart.

        If Chelsea aren't going to give a 24 year old with 10 England caps enough games then why not just sell him?

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          Originally posted by jameswba View Post
          Not quite like Thierry Henry against Ireland actually. No point talking about Robinson hitting the bar either, as someone was probably a tenth of a millimetre offside in the build-up to it or something.
          No that would definitely have counted. Though Having watched callum robinson playing for ireland for quite a few years now, that does definitely come under the heading of things that are theoretically possible, but also nearly infinitely improbable.

          Originally posted by ChrisJ View Post
          The other incident... apart from missing two fouls committed by Maguire on the WBA forward on the right (Grant?) who centred the ball, it really wasn't a clear an obvious error, or even an error at all. That Fernandez is a lovely player going forward, but if I was OGS, I think I'd fine him a week's wages any time he decides to help out the defence.
          There's still some confusion about what clear and obvious means. It doesn't mean easy to spot at first sight, it means "This isn't a matter of personal interpretation, having reviewed the footage, you've got it wrong." So for example in the first half, one of the west brom defenders had a tug at martial's shirt, but the referee was able to decide that it wasn't enough of a tug to impede him. That's a call for the referee to make, and VAR isn't going to overrule him in that circumstance. VAR gets involved with the gallagher/fernandes incident, because the referee thinks that fernandes made contact with gallagher before he makes contact with the ball, and if you look at a variety of angles you can see that he does, so that decision is clearly and obviously wrong, and not a matter for interpretation.

          If you watch how this is discussed on tv, pundits take "Clear and obvious" to mean "Common sense", and no amount of stating what it means is going to change their mind.

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            Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
            I didn't watch this game but was surprised to see Loftus-Cheek listed as a Fulham scorer as I didn't realise he was at the club.

            He seems quite an established player at an advanced stage of his career to be sent on a season's loan, even for renowned stockpilers Chelsea.

            I know he missed a lot of 19/20 with an injury but seems to have played quite a bit after the restart.

            If Chelsea aren't going to give a 24 year old with 10 England caps enough games then why not just sell him?
            Nobody was buying anyone this summer. That's why. Certainly not the sort of player that loftus cheek is.

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              Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
              I like how when the rules work against the BRCs we get screeds telling us how we are all English brexit gammons for not embracing change but when the rules keep OGS in his job they must be enforced without mercy.
              Terrible false equivalences that feel right in your head, but don't seem to great written down are a definite warning that a slice of pineapple can't be far away. The rule mentioned in the first instance is an absurd piece of english exceptionalism based on an absurd anachronistic misunderstanding of how things work in the modern world. A viewpoint that has been abandoned as unworkable by the fucking EFL. It's A masterpiece of prioritizing carrying on doing things the way you are used to, over taking account of radically changed circumstandes. Where it's all about "Should" rather than "is" with the gap made up with misplaced anger, and punishment for your enemies. There is no more flattering way of presenting it. Essentially it's a whole Gammon hock.

              In the second instance, these are the rules that are applied across the entirety of european football. it's the people that suggest that they should be enforced differently to ensure a negative outcome for man utd are the ones that really need to do a bit more to explain why they are right.

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                Your inconsistency is laughable. Basically when people said Klopp and Pep should suck it up and play within the established rules you threw a hysterical tantrum and reached for the worst OTF insults you could to ad hom the argument. But then when it's a case of Bruno Fernandes getting away with kicking someone and having a second chance to not fuck up a penalty you reached for the same set of insults to decry anyone who thinks differently to you. Well that's fine. It's your approach to football. Some people touch corner flags and don't count nil-nils. Some people prefer to watch games pissed. You like to call everyone and everything gammon. Each to their own.

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                  I've already said that I think the key decisions in yesterday's game were right as the rules stand. I initially thought the Gallager/Fernandes incident was a pen, but replays showed it wasn't. The handball was a handball, and Johnstone was very clearly off his line before Fernandes hit his first effort. A properly-placed assistant who was actually watching should easily have spotted this without the ensuing VAR kerfuffle.

                  So the only thing to add is that if Albion do one day get awarded a pen vs Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea or whoever, the officials and VAR had better be watching the 'keeper's feet more closely than a hawk watches its prey. What will probably happen is that VAR goes up in smoke and no retake can be ordered because refs have been instructed that 'VAR decides these matters'. Or something.

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                    Why wasn't the Fulham penalty retaken for encroachment? Is that not a VAR thing?

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                      Has any thought been given to establishing a separate VAR forum so that the subject doesn't clog up the Football one so much?

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                        Hehe.

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                          Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
                          Has any thought been given to establishing a separate VAR forum so that the subject doesn't clog up the Football one so much?
                          I would say a hesitant yes to this. Hesitant because there already seems to be confusion about whether to post about Premier League games in the Premier League thread or the football watching one. Plus, as we know, every Premier League game these days is pretty much all about VAR anyway.

                          Anyway I'm bored with both VAR and with myself for bleating about VAR. I usually do something slightly more interesting with my Sundays, but not this one obviously. Perhaps I'll try to at least rescue the evening by rearranging the bookshelves or something.

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                            Can there not just be a var thread? A forum would be giving it the attention it so desperately seeks. A thread for people to talk about it should they wish would be better

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                              There are at least three threads in Football with VAR in the title.

                              This one appears to be the longest

                              https://www.onetouchfootball.com/for...liant-isn-t-it

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                                So that’ll be at least three concurrent threads dealing with Premier League matches as they happen.

                                Good-o.

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                                  It is actually quite rare for posters here to attend Premier League matches

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                                    Yeah, I don't recall seeing much English top-flight action in the matchgoing threads.

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                                      Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                      Basically when people said Klopp and Pep should suck it up and play within the established rules you threw a hysterical tantrum and reached for the worst OTF insults you could to ad hom the argument.
                                      what else are you supposed to call an argument that basically uses dislike of big clubs to justify a "Health and safety gone mad " approach? I didn't call it gammonism for no reason. It's Straight up English exceptionalism. No-one else anywhere thinks like this. This is a player protection issue, not an opportunity to get even with clubs you don't like. It's anger fuelled reactionary conservatism, combined with national exceptionalism, combined with a strong dose of irrationality, that relies on shared anger over logic. It is what it is. It's basically only one step up from "Pwning the BRCt*rds"

                                      Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                      But then when it's a case of Bruno Fernandes getting away with kicking someone and having a second chance to not fuck up a penalty you reached for the same set of insults to decry anyone who thinks differently to you
                                      But he didn't get away with kicking someone, you can see it on the replays. That's why the referee overturned his decision. And he got a second chance to take the penalty because the keeper broke the rules in order to save the first one. The keeper is supposed to have one foot on the line when the ball is struck, or else the penalty is retaken if saved. Are we supposed to suspend the rules when it 'benefits' a team we don't like? This is a pretty shaky argument, and a poor starting point for calling someone inconsistent.

                                      Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                      You like to call everyone and everything gammon. Each to their own.
                                      There's a lot of it around the UK at the moment. It permeates every aspect of english culture. The irony about the initial adoption and use of that phrase, was that it was largely done by adherents of something that could best be described as Cargo cult Bennism, for people with an aversion to details and a disdain for numbers. A backwards looking form of politics largely lead by a central cohort of upper middle class, rugby school contrarians, heading for retirement,, that seemed more intent on relitigating the labour splits of the1970 and 80s, particularly over europe. rather than looking forward to create a modern coherent social democracy for a modern world. A movement with a clearer vision of the things it would bring back, rather than a clear vision of how it would handle the problems facing the UK today. A whole lot of "should" rather than "Is", with anger and national exceptionalism making up the gaps. Basically the other side of the coin of what you could see in that audience in middlesbrough, but still definitely the same currency.

                                      We do our own weird national cultural thing that drives me around the bend, but at least I recognise it and methodically check my thinking for it.

                                      I don't know if it is possible to separate VAR discussions into their own thread, as they are the new way of talking about refereeing. And a huge amount of coverage of football in the UK is given over to it. The easiest way to reduce the focus on it, is for everyone to agree to just accept that that's the way things are now, and learn about how it works, so you can follow what is going on. It's a change that has plenty of things going for it, far in excess of the shortcomings it imposes. to focus on the shortcomings because it's not what you are used to is pointless and counter productive, largely because you will eventually get used to it. It's not going to go away, so complaining about its existence is just pointless venting that only winds up making you angrier than you were before. You may as well be complaining about floodlights being unnatural, how vinyl is better than digital music, the repeal of the corn laws, or women getting the vote. It's just one of an incredibly long list of changes that takes place in football on a regular basis. There is no reason for people to get this angry about it. People aren't going crazy about VAR to this degree in any other country. It's a cultural thing. Fight against it .There are more important things to worry about. Your country is driving its plague ridden national bus over a cliff into total bankruptcy, economic ruin and fascism, and you're all on board. Too much time is given over to talking about VAR.
                                      Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 22-11-2020, 18:50.

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                                        Bullet header from ten bob head Jonny Evans.

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                                          Originally posted by TonTon View Post
                                          Yeah, I don't recall seeing much English top-flight action in the matchgoing threads.
                                          I'll do one occasionally when I pick up a spare ticket for Anfield, but these days I prefer domestic cup ties and European nights. I did have use of a season ticket a couple of years back but I think it was before the matchgoing threads were resurrected. There are people who go to PL games on here though, I just don't think they post about it very often.

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                                            @TAB The funny thing is I started out agreeing with you on that other thread. But didn't agree enough or in the right way and you got all frothy.

                                            I'm sure the altruism of the BRCs is all that motivates them. Geewillikers, I wish I could be less cynical and accept all their wonderful plans to save football.

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                                              I go to PL games. Or did. No one goes to anything since the great air plague of 2020. Now I just watch on telly like I used to, and in some ways it's preferable.

                                              I used to really like gammon but I'd feel awkward ordering it now. Tarnished, like the name Karen. It's a shame.

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                                                Maybe the vinyl/digital music comment could be debated elsewhere.

                                                Leicester need something special in the second half.

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                                                  Not really sure why Firmino's was chalked off. Everyone went for the ball, it fell nicely for him. Not his fault if the bloke who's allowed to use his hands backs out of a 50/50.

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                                                    Looks like Keita has twanged summat in his thigh - can't say that's down to him being overplayed cos he hasn't had a run out for 6 weeks.

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