Weekend watching thread - Sat 21 Nov

[Sporting]

I didn't see either of the penalties, both given and not given.so can't give an opinion.

But everyone seems to agree that the WBA goalie was off his line, so where is the problem in having that pen retaken?

[Patrick Thistle]

And now, Match of the Day. Going to watch the Spurs highlights at least.

[Patrick Thistle]

But everyone seems to agree that the WBA goalie was off his line, so where is the problem in having that pen retaken?

Yeah those are the shit joyless rules to be enforced without mercy.

[Sporting]

So what rule would you enforce or otherwise for goalies staying or not on the line? Would you be happy if the penalty taker took the pen a yard further towards the goal?

[jameswba]

It pains me to say it, but I think all the main decisions in the Man Utd-Albion game were correct. I'd still bin VAR tomorrow if I could though.

The really sad thing is that no more could have been asked of Albion. They got the tactics right, defended well, and created chances. They had Man Utd hanging on at the end. But it still wasn't quite good enough. More than a quarter of the season gone now, and I'm starting to fear we could end up with fewer points than Derby did in 2007/2008.

[Patrick Thistle]

So what rule would you enforce or otherwise for goalies staying or not on the line? Would you be happy if the penalty taker took the pen a yard further towards the goal?

I don't know if I would enforce it. I know it's always been a rule.

[elguapo4]

" time for the old gunslinger " says MOTD when Andy Carroll comes on, old lead swinger more like.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Rio Ferdinand and Paul scholes are the half time pundits. No bias there then.

You clearly don't watch them commentating on man utd matches that often. They're absolutely furious that they haven't been able to call the players "paedophiles and cowards" because they didn't lose. So instead they're just ranting about VAR like a whole carvery full of gammon. They've been cunting on about the over ruling of the west brom penalty for ages. They're so busy prattling on about how the game has gone, that none of them have noticed that fernandes touched the ball before he touched the west brom player, and that's why the VAR spent a while looking at it, and that's why they brought the ref over to look at it, and when he saw it for himself he overturned the penalty. i.e. the same reason that the penalty was overturned in the villa brighton

Peter Walton is just as bad, they asks him should var not have gone back to award a free kick to west brom, and he explains that the VAR can only go back to the start of the attacking phase leading to the goal, and that he would probably have gone back to the foul, and then they all proceed to say it wasn't a penalty because it was a foul, completely ignoring that bit in between where west brom and man utd players keep winning the ball back from each other before the ball goes wide for the cross. Then they go on to say that it wasn't a hand ball because that wasn't a handball when they were playing, as though that is vaguely fucking relevant to anything.

The Problem isn't VAR, it's the culture of aggressive angry stupidity surrounding English football.

[Jon]

You clearly don't watch them commentating on man utd matches that often.

you're right there, I haven't seen man United play for years and could hardly recognise any of their players. But I do know that bt couldn't have got away with fielding two man United pundits if they were playing Liverpool/Man city/any other big club.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Yeah those are the shit joyless rules to be enforced without mercy.

The keeper has been supposed to stay on his line since 1905, This is not a new rule, it's just being enforced. Goalkeepers will learn to keep one foot on the line.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

you're right there, I haven't seen man United play for years and could hardly recognise any of their players. But I do know that bt couldn't have got away with fielding two man United pundits if they were playing Liverpool/Man city/any other big club.

I don't know if BT sports have any non man utd pundits, other than Steve mcManaman. I think joe cole might do the odd game.

[Jon]

I don't watch sky sports often but I think they pick from a wider roster and usually draft in pundits with some connection to one of the clubs in the featured games, ensuring less imbalance than bt.

[Gangster Octopus]

You don't understand, Manchester United are desperately poor and have more current injuries than any other club has had in their history. And every single person in the media hates them. All the laws of football are designed to destroy Manchester United. It's amazing that they haven't fucked off and joined a league where everyone loves them, possibly in Europe...

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

It's generally extremely uneven. sometimes they do, more often they stick with their stable of big stars. but they're very flexible. I mean think of all the clubs that Jamie redknapp goes in to bat for There's all the clubs he played for, and then there's all the clubs his dad managed, and then there's whatever club his cousin in in charge of. any system that they had has kind of broken down completely since covid 19 though. The only pundit I can really remember being the "West Brom" pundit was Darren Fletcher, and I don't think that's quite what you had in mind.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

It pains me to say it, but I think all the main decisions in the Man Utd-Albion game were correct. I'd still bin VAR tomorrow if I could though.

The really sad thing is that no more could have been asked of Albion. They got the tactics right, defended well, and created chances. They had Man Utd hanging on at the end. But it still wasn't quite good enough. More than a quarter of the season gone now, and I'm starting to fear we could end up with fewer points than Derby did in 2007/2008.

West brom played very well, but most people aren't going to have noticed a big chunk of it, because the change of football from a sequence of one on one battles between players who didn't move around much, to a fluid high speed game where defending is based on positioning, and a zonal system seems to have passed a lot of people by. Lunging blocks are good, manly tackles are good, clearing headers are good, reading the game and using your good starting position to makie a timely interception to cut out a through ball, is usually seen as a mistake by the attacker. (unless the player making the interception is a high profile player, in which case he's basically Bobby Moore), also people don't really notice defenders who stay on their feet, keep their shape, and force the attacker to do things that they don't want to have to do. West brom looked very well organised and if it wasn't for the centre halves cutting out a bunch of throughballs it could have got a bit messy. But cut them out they did. They backed each other up, which is absolutely not the same thing as "getting men behind the ball." They moved the ball around slickly up to a certain point. It was just in the final third that it wasn't quite there for them. They needed a bit of luck, but they didn't get it.

It's also something you see with penalties. If a player doesn't score a penalty, you'll usually hear it described as a miss, even if the keeper made a great save (unless of course the keeper is high profile) I got a bunch of messages that fernandes had missed the penalty from people who weren't watching it on Now TV which is several seconds behind satellite tv. Which when I saw it felt a bit harsh on johnstone. and then we discovered that he was a vile cheat and a complete fraud!

[Sporting]

It pains me to say it, but I think all the main decisions in the Man Utd-Albion game were correct. I'd still bin VAR tomorrow if I could though.

The really sad thing is that no more could have been asked of Albion. They got the tactics right, defended well, and created chances. They had Man Utd hanging on at the end. But it still wasn't quite good enough. More than a quarter of the season gone now, and I'm starting to fear we could end up with fewer points than Derby did in 2007/2008.

I've seen the highlights now and agree with you on the penalty decisions, though I think you are a wee bit pessimistic re WBA's prospects. They have more quality than other lower-table teams.

[jameswba]

I hope you're right Sporting, but my sense is we would be competitive in this league only if we could field 12 players. With 11, whatever formation Bilic opts for - and he opted correctly yesterday - we are short somewhere.

We need 3 centre-backs, but our full-backs* aren't quite good enough to play as wing-backs. We need a creative central midfielder, or at least one with a passing range, but playing one means sacrificing a holding player. Whoever plays up-front struggles to hold the ball, but heaven help the other areas if we push someone up alongside him, etc etc.

I don't know how much of this is about systems really. I think it's about trying to play in the top league with a team of Championship players plus a 36 year-old.

*But Conor Townsend is fast becoming my favourite current player. It would have made a fine story if he'd put his chance away yesterday and we'd held on to win. But going back to what PT said about this being a joyless level of football, it couldn't have been. We'll never get to talk about an ex-Scunthorpe full-back scoring the winner at Old Trafford when there are more tedious VAR debates to be had.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

*But Conor Townsend is fast becoming my favourite current player. It would have made a fine story if he'd put his chance away yesterday and we'd held on to win. But going back to what PT said about this being a joyless level of football, it couldn't have been. We'll never get to talk about an ex-Scunthorpe full-back scoring the winner at Old Trafford when there are more tedious VAR debates to be had.

is that the chance that de gea saved with his feet? Because if so that wouldn't have counted, because he used his hand to bring the ball down like thierry henry against ireland.

[jameswba]

Not quite like Thierry Henry against Ireland actually. No point talking about Robinson hitting the bar either, as someone was probably a tenth of a millimetre offside in the build-up to it or something.

[Lobachevsky]

great goal for everton.

[Gangster Octopus]

3-1 now.

[Jah Womble]

Everton’s one-touch movement is enjoyable to watch.

[Patrick Thistle]

I like how when the rules work against the BRCs we get screeds telling us how we are all English brexit gammons for not embracing change but when the rules keep OGS in his job they must be enforced without mercy.

[ChrisJ]

The Man Utd penalty and retake decisions were correct by the laws, no matter how silly the handball situation. No VAR should have been needed for either, I saw them both straight off and I was half way down a bottle of red.

The other incident... apart from missing two fouls committed by Maguire on the WBA forward on the right (Grant?) who centred the ball, it really wasn't a clear an obvious error, or even an error at all. That Fernandez is a lovely player going forward, but if I was OGS, I think I'd fine him a week's wages any time he decides to help out the defence.

Re: Townsend, the ball hit him in the midriff. It then went on to strike his arm (so not very much like Thierry Henri) and had he beaten De Gea, I'm sure VAR would have come to an accurate, consistent and reliable decision.

I'd like Albion to do well, but they'd have got a point at best even if things had gone well and I suspect jameswba is correct.

[Mr Beast]

Very amusing Fulham penalty. The taker did well to block his own shot.