Originally posted by TonTon
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Another match abandoned due to homophobic abuse
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Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
I agree with this.
I'm just really despondent about humanity at the moment. It's 2020 and we still have a lot of Nazis in the countries that defeated the Nazis.
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And I think it is true that a lot of people do take their cues from public figures like professional sportspeople, so any serious repercussions of homophobic abuse by players such as games being abandoned and big bans delivered to the culprits, should have a trickle-down effect of teaching people that kind of behaviour is not acceptable. You'd hope that will filter its way outside of stadiums too, and people will realise that applies in life in general, not just to footballers on the pitch.
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Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View PostI’m more inclined to forgive a player. They all say shit in the heat of the game because they’re angry or want to make their opponent angry. They may see the error of that when they calm down and change their ways.
Fans don’t usually have that excuse.Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 15-10-2020, 10:55.
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Red card, six games, ten games, a season - beyond a certain point, increasing the sanction isn’t going to reduce the chances of it happening. Players don’t calculate the cost before doing something stupid.
And just because certain words aren’t heard doesn’t ensure that everyone will be treated fairly and welcomed.
There’s no shortcut to inclusion.
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Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View PostRed card, six games, ten games, a season - beyond a certain point, increasing the sanction isn’t going to reduce the chances of it happening. Players don’t calculate the cost before doing something stupid.
I think people need to have higher expectations of sports people in situations like this. These people are far from stupid, and even the most hot headed ones only seem hot headed because of the supernatural focus of everyone else. A big part of their professional life is adjusting to rule changes, which happen all the fucking time. Most of them are perfectly capable of accepting those boundaries and operating within them. That people paid so much attention to the terry or suarez cases does rather mask the fact, that the overwhelming majority of footballers are perfectly capable of going through their entire careers without once racially abusing anyone. And while changing social attitudes play a part, it's also down to clear rules and terrible punishments. And what holds for racism should hold equally true for homophobia.
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The area where you are going to make most impact is with the calculating fuckers who are winding someone up.
And, as you said, it turns into a global incident now, not just because of social norms, but because of the technology. Not long ago, few people who were not actually at the match would know what happened in a American second division game. But I don't think "shame" is really what makes an impact on these people. They just don't' want to lose money or prestige. If that's what it takes to make the game more welcoming to everyone, then it's good, but these things will keep happening over and over.
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I don't know, I think shame must make some kind of impact. Imagine you're muddling along as an average player in the American second division, with whatever minor level of local prestige and nice life that might afford you, and all of a sudden you're known globally as the bloke who got banned for being a homophobe. That's got to have some impact. In the recent case, the guy tried to plead innocence in the immediate aftermath, but then very quickly deleted all his social media. That suggests to me he might be experiencing some shame issues.
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Getting bigots to shut their mouths is a good, in and of itself.Last edited by DCI Harry Batt; 16-10-2020, 12:46.
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Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View PostRed card, six games, ten games, a season - beyond a certain point, increasing the sanction isn't going to reduce the chances of it happening. Players don't calculate the cost before doing something stupid.
It then becomes the gradual elimination of repeat offenders from the game - which wouldn't be a bad thing.
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First up - well done to Langdon Donovan and my old city.
Second - shaming these people is fine, and I think it works. If people are shamed, and just terrified of the consequences, and the language leaves the football pitch and goes underground, that is itself great. Because that means there are increasing places where everyone feels safe from damaging and threatening language. It also means that the kids don't hear that language on the terraces or on the pitches, and the fewer places they hear the language the less likely they are to use it. It might be a long process, but removing it from highly visible (audible?) places is a definitely step in that process. Ban the fucker, let everyone know that if they behave the same way that they're getting banned and everyone will know they're a bigoted shit, and make sure the sporting environment is safer.
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Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View PostFirst up - well done to Langdon Donovan and my old city.
Second - shaming these people is fine, and I think it works. If people are shamed, and just terrified of the consequences, and the language leaves the football pitch and goes underground, that is itself great. Because that means there are increasing places where everyone feels safe from damaging and threatening language. It also means that the kids don't hear that language on the terraces or on the pitches, and the fewer places they hear the language the less likely they are to use it. It might be a long process, but removing it from highly visible (audible?) places is a definitely step in that process. Ban the fucker, let everyone know that if they behave the same way that they're getting banned and everyone will know they're a bigoted shit, and make sure the sporting environment is safer.
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Originally posted by Guy Profumo View Post
Quite.
Shutting the buggers down stops the hatred from spreading
The haters are going to hate, as the kids say.
But enforcing sanctions against kind of thing does show kids and, perhaps, well-meaning middle-class white people that certain words are not just bantz. That helps a bit.
Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 16-10-2020, 16:50.
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Originally posted by Jobi1 View PostI don't know, I think shame must make some kind of impact. Imagine you're muddling along as an average player in the American second division, with whatever minor level of local prestige and nice life that might afford you, and all of a sudden you're known globally as the bloke who got banned for being a homophobe. That's got to have some impact. In the recent case, the guy tried to plead innocence in the immediate aftermath, but then very quickly deleted all his social media. That suggests to me he might be experiencing some shame issues.
It just means that people with certain kinds of opinions are not welcome in the USL in order to make it more pleasant for a different group of people. And that’s fine. In fact, it is just and right. It’s also just good business. But we shouldn’t pretend it’s doing more than that.
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"to make it more pleasant for a different group of people" is quite some...well, I'm not quite sure exactly how to express my frustration here. It's very frustrating, though, for someone to continue to insist that the bigot is the one we should be worrying about, rather than the victims.
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