Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Another match abandoned due to homophobic abuse

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #26
    Originally posted by TonTon View Post
    Footballing sanctions over here are a matter of public record.
    What are they? I can't find any specific mention of sanctions on the FA's site.

    Comment


      #27
      Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post

      I agree with this.
      I don't know if it makes them any safer overall, but if it makes them safer in certain spaces like football grounds, then it's worth a go.

      I'm just really despondent about humanity at the moment. It's 2020 and we still have a lot of Nazis in the countries that defeated the Nazis.

      Comment


        #28
        Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View Post

        What are they? I can't find any specific mention of sanctions on the FA's site.
        Well, tbh, they were a matter of public record, back when I was in the game. Registered on the FA webaite. and that. All disciplinary decisions and sanctions.

        Comment


          #29
          Still are:- https://www.thefa.com/football-rules...nce/discipline

          Comment


            #30
            Ta

            Comment


              #31
              Originally posted by TonTon View Post
              Yeah that's shit, Jobi1 , I'm really sorry to hear that.

              I've always been lucky - and I know that luck is to a large extent determined by my privilege. And I know that things aren't always easy in the way that many likes to pretend.
              I feel quite lucky (in context) too, as I've never really had any serious abuse directed at me, other than one incident of some snarky comments from a group while we were walking through diverse, cosmopolitan Central London (funnily enough using the same terminology that was directed at Collin Martin in the San Diego game, which the referee claimed not have understood as it was in a language he didn't know – Jamaican English, for reference). We're both blokes who like football, so can generally "pass" naturally and do not stand out unless we do something obvious – so I don't necessarily feel like I'm ever really hiding or not being myself. But it's that fact of being wary of doing those simple things like holding hands that most people just wouldn't even think about that does make it a little sad.

              And I think it is true that a lot of people do take their cues from public figures like professional sportspeople, so any serious repercussions of homophobic abuse by players such as games being abandoned and big bans delivered to the culprits, should have a trickle-down effect of teaching people that kind of behaviour is not acceptable. You'd hope that will filter its way outside of stadiums too, and people will realise that applies in life in general, not just to footballers on the pitch.

              Comment


                #32
                Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                I’m more inclined to forgive a player. They all say shit in the heat of the game because they’re angry or want to make their opponent angry. They may see the error of that when they calm down and change their ways.

                Fans don’t usually have that excuse.
                But fans would use that excuse too. Also Fuck the player in that situation. It's 2020. You know you're not supposed to do it any more than you're not supposed to whip out a firearm, It's possible to tie yourself up in awful knots over the intent of the person giving the abuse, which is why football neatly sidesteps the issue by focussing not on the perpetrator, but on protecting the players from hearing such things, so saying the words under any circumstances is the crime. It's the only way around the legally bulletproof "It was only bantz" or "I was in a bad mood" defence.
                Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 15-10-2020, 10:55.

                Comment


                  #33
                  Red card, six games, ten games, a season - beyond a certain point, increasing the sanction isn’t going to reduce the chances of it happening. Players don’t calculate the cost before doing something stupid.

                  And just because certain words aren’t heard doesn’t ensure that everyone will be treated fairly and welcomed.

                  There’s no shortcut to inclusion.

                  Comment


                    #34
                    Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                    Red card, six games, ten games, a season - beyond a certain point, increasing the sanction isn’t going to reduce the chances of it happening. Players don’t calculate the cost before doing something stupid.
                    I think that the evidence broadly is that it does work. There's still loads of racism in football, but while players will still have opponents using racism to wind them up, it's surely only a tiny tiny fraction of what it must have been like for black players in the 70's and 80's. when it must have been in every single game. The area where you are going to make most impact is with the calculating fuckers who are winding someone up. Sure you can try and wind up your opponent with a bit of racism, but you may well end up as a global news story, and miss a substantial chunk of the season. Before the football authorities got into publicly crucifying people, the only consequences to doing this was that you might get your head kicked in.

                    I think people need to have higher expectations of sports people in situations like this. These people are far from stupid, and even the most hot headed ones only seem hot headed because of the supernatural focus of everyone else. A big part of their professional life is adjusting to rule changes, which happen all the fucking time. Most of them are perfectly capable of accepting those boundaries and operating within them. That people paid so much attention to the terry or suarez cases does rather mask the fact, that the overwhelming majority of footballers are perfectly capable of going through their entire careers without once racially abusing anyone. And while changing social attitudes play a part, it's also down to clear rules and terrible punishments. And what holds for racism should hold equally true for homophobia.

                    Comment


                      #35
                      The area where you are going to make most impact is with the calculating fuckers who are winding someone up.
                      That's probably true, especially compared to how it must have been 25 years ago. But the only way to really prevent anyone from using these epithets in the heat of anger is to get those words out of their vocabulary completely, and that requires a much longer social change process.

                      And, as you said, it turns into a global incident now, not just because of social norms, but because of the technology. Not long ago, few people who were not actually at the match would know what happened in a American second division game. But I don't think "shame" is really what makes an impact on these people. They just don't' want to lose money or prestige. If that's what it takes to make the game more welcoming to everyone, then it's good, but these things will keep happening over and over.

                      Comment


                        #36
                        I don't know, I think shame must make some kind of impact. Imagine you're muddling along as an average player in the American second division, with whatever minor level of local prestige and nice life that might afford you, and all of a sudden you're known globally as the bloke who got banned for being a homophobe. That's got to have some impact. In the recent case, the guy tried to plead innocence in the immediate aftermath, but then very quickly deleted all his social media. That suggests to me he might be experiencing some shame issues.

                        Comment


                          #37
                          Getting bigots to shut their mouths is a good, in and of itself.
                          Last edited by TonTon; 16-10-2020, 12:46.

                          Comment


                            #38
                            Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                            Red card, six games, ten games, a season - beyond a certain point, increasing the sanction isn't going to reduce the chances of it happening. Players don't calculate the cost before doing something stupid.
                            The idea is to help those being victimised, not those committing the offence. If they continue not to 'calculate the cost' - or simply cannot learn (or choose not to) - then the punishment increases.

                            It then becomes the gradual elimination of repeat offenders from the game - which wouldn't be a bad thing.

                            Comment


                              #39
                              Originally posted by TonTon View Post
                              Getting bigots to shut their mouths in a good, in and of itself.
                              This, as the youth say.

                              Comment


                                #40
                                First up - well done to Langdon Donovan and my old city.

                                Second - shaming these people is fine, and I think it works. If people are shamed, and just terrified of the consequences, and the language leaves the football pitch and goes underground, that is itself great. Because that means there are increasing places where everyone feels safe from damaging and threatening language. It also means that the kids don't hear that language on the terraces or on the pitches, and the fewer places they hear the language the less likely they are to use it. It might be a long process, but removing it from highly visible (audible?) places is a definitely step in that process. Ban the fucker, let everyone know that if they behave the same way that they're getting banned and everyone will know they're a bigoted shit, and make sure the sporting environment is safer.

                                Comment


                                  #41
                                  Originally posted by TonTon View Post
                                  Getting bigots to shut their mouths is a good, in and of itself.
                                  Quite.

                                  Shutting the buggers down stops the hatred from spreading

                                  Comment


                                    #42
                                    Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                                    First up - well done to Langdon Donovan and my old city.

                                    Second - shaming these people is fine, and I think it works. If people are shamed, and just terrified of the consequences, and the language leaves the football pitch and goes underground, that is itself great. Because that means there are increasing places where everyone feels safe from damaging and threatening language. It also means that the kids don't hear that language on the terraces or on the pitches, and the fewer places they hear the language the less likely they are to use it. It might be a long process, but removing it from highly visible (audible?) places is a definitely step in that process. Ban the fucker, let everyone know that if they behave the same way that they're getting banned and everyone will know they're a bigoted shit, and make sure the sporting environment is safer.
                                    How do you shame Luis Suarez?

                                    Comment


                                      #43
                                      Oh, I'm sure there are some who can't be shamed. But they can be banned, and their public profile and earning potential damaged,

                                      Comment


                                        #44
                                        I'm more of a fear than a shame man. But whatever shuts the bigot up really.

                                        Comment


                                          #45
                                          Originally posted by Guy Profumo View Post

                                          Quite.

                                          Shutting the buggers down stops the hatred from spreading
                                          I just don’t see much evidence of that. Hate seems to be as popular now as it was when it was socially acceptable.

                                          The haters are going to hate, as the kids say.

                                          But enforcing sanctions against kind of thing does show kids and, perhaps, well-meaning middle-class white people that certain words are not just bantz. That helps a bit.
                                          Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 16-10-2020, 16:50.

                                          Comment


                                            #46
                                            Originally posted by Jobi1 View Post
                                            I don't know, I think shame must make some kind of impact. Imagine you're muddling along as an average player in the American second division, with whatever minor level of local prestige and nice life that might afford you, and all of a sudden you're known globally as the bloke who got banned for being a homophobe. That's got to have some impact. In the recent case, the guy tried to plead innocence in the immediate aftermath, but then very quickly deleted all his social media. That suggests to me he might be experiencing some shame issues.
                                            But it doesn’t mean shame is changing his mind or will change his off-pitch behavior. No doubt he’s received lots of praise and support from all over the world, just feeding into their narrative about snowflakes.

                                            It just means that people with certain kinds of opinions are not welcome in the USL in order to make it more pleasant for a different group of people. And that’s fine. In fact, it is just and right. It’s also just good business. But we shouldn’t pretend it’s doing more than that.

                                            Comment


                                              #47
                                              "to make it more pleasant for a different group of people" is quite some...well, I'm not quite sure exactly how to express my frustration here. It's very frustrating, though, for someone to continue to insist that the bigot is the one we should be worrying about, rather than the victims.

                                              Comment

                                              Working...
                                              X