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The latest plans to destroy football in England

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  • Satchmo Distel
    replied
    David Conn's article is odd because it assumes you can detach the 25% payment to the EFL from the destructive bulk of the package, as if the main motive of the proposers is to help the EFL.

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  • Duncan Gardner
    replied
    Southampton: a late period Judge Dredd novelty single

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  • pebblethefish
    replied
    My Southampton supporting friends are trying to say "Yeah, well, as one of the established Big Nine..," while keeping a straight face, but they can't manage it.

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  • cantagalo
    replied
    Given the DCMS statement, here's a suggestion for Oliver Dowden.

    Let the Government bail out the EFL and National League and recoup the money with a windfall tax on the Premier League.

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  • DCI Harry Batt
    replied
    I never imagined that in a situation with Oliver Dowden on one side and David Conn the other, I'd be on Dowden's side.

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  • Various Artist
    replied
    Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View Post
    ​​​​​​My Name Is Ian has wasted no time at all. Excellent article on 200%.
    That is really superb. Thanks Ian.

    Leave a comment:


  • Various Artist
    replied
    Originally posted by Wouter D View Post
    Who are the fans you're asking about? These decisions are not made with you or me in mind; they follow the TV money coming from the hordes of armchair fans emerging in Asia. Would they find it boring?
    That's a valid question. Presumably they're taking notice of the growing trend among younger and certain overseas demographics to 'follow' individual superstar players rather than clubs per se, and how the arrival of one of said cohort of players at a given team can bring its own fanbase with it – c.f. James Rodriguez at Everton right now. So in their minds' eye, the permanent collecting-together of the biggest-name and most marketable players at a cluster of the biggest-name and most marketable clubs, only ever playing each other, creates an endless glittering galactico-fest that these developing fanbases will fall over themselves to fork out great piles of cash to watch for the rest of time.


    As ale and Walt Flanagans Dog have eloquently pointed out above, though, creating self-reinforcing elites or closed shops won't magically make every fixture the biggest and best and most lucrative thing ever. The sticking point that the prospective Superleaguers have never seemed to appreciate is that when the elite only ever face each other, not only does it become mundane – as already witnessed in how dull it is to have them meeting routinely in European competition every season, compared with how much more rare and thrilling it was in the pre-Champions League era – but also, by definition, not everyone can remain top dogs. You can't have an entire pack made up of alphas. I don't see how even Real Madrid v Barcelona, say, can retain its cachet if they're fighting it out for 4th and 5th spot in Season X of the MegaUltraDuperLeague behind, say, Bayern, PSG and Man City.

    As the saying goes, stuff yer superleague.
    Last edited by Various Artist; 11-10-2020, 23:04.

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  • Wouter D
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul S View Post
    How many fans will actually watch this? Seeing the same teams playing each other week in week out is very boring and I can't see how this will generate the millions they think it will.
    Who are the fans you're asking about? These decisions are not made with you or me in mind; they follow the TV money coming from the hordes of armchair fans emerging in Asia. Would they find it boring?

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  • sw2borshch
    replied
    Originally posted by Walt Flanagans Dog View Post

    There is also the issue that has been pointed out before (on here maybe, or in the magazine itself) that the big clubs need to maintain some sort of status of glory to continue to attract fans (or maintain the ones they have, in the global "market"). If you're even the 4th or 5th ranked Premier League club you won a lot more games than you lose - joining a breakaway European league could well mean becoming permanent bottom-halfers, losing more than you win. Hence the big clubs need the smaller English clubs as cannon fodder to build their image of invincibility.
    Reasons to keep twenty clubs and the League Cup, you'd think.

    The lower eleven should be breaking away.

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  • Walt Flanagans Dog
    replied
    Originally posted by ChrisJ View Post
    Four loan players from one EPL club -> 'special relationship'; then when it becomes 5 or 6 players, maybe some sort of exclusivity becomes part of the deal. "And as we're generously paying big chunk of their wages, maybe we should decide when and whether they play."
    As far as I understand it (from loan dealings Carlisle have had in recent years) there is a bit of that going on already, but implicitly rather than explicitly.

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  • Walt Flanagans Dog
    replied
    Originally posted by ale View Post

    This has always puzzled me about European League break aways. Selecting 20 clubs from richest Leagues still means only 3 or 4 are going to be chasing the main title. So 15 or so clubs going to be going half a season or more with nothing to play for-on reasonable assumption relegation wont be built in. And there will be no historical rivalries or local derbies to raise enthusiasm. Still less opportunities to travel away en masse. Could be wrong but how attractive for say 14th place is Man Utd v Lyon going to be (insert own teams)
    There is also the issue that has been pointed out before (on here maybe, or in the magazine itself) that the big clubs need to maintain some sort of status of glory to continue to attract fans (or maintain the ones they have, in the global "market"). If you're even the 4th or 5th ranked Premier League club you won a lot more games than you lose - joining a breakaway European league could well mean becoming permanent bottom-halfers, losing more than you win. Hence the big clubs need the smaller English clubs as cannon fodder to build their image of invincibility.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snake Plissken
    replied
    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
    Can they dictate to the EFL how many clubs they have? Why is it not acceptable to have 25 clubs in the 3rd and 4th tiers, for example?
    The PL and EFL are completely separate entities. You have to resign from one in order to join the other. So they could, in theory, kicks clubs out of the PL and force the EFL to take them on because there is nowhere else to go.

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  • ChrisJ
    replied
    Before I posted earlier I wrote a para on this being the Trojan horse for feeder clubs/EPL-B, which I deleted thinking it a bit tinfoil hat and melodramatic. Later, listening to 5Live for the Wales commentary, the collected pundits, reporters and presenters lined up to give the whole project a collective kicking* which quite surprised me given how awestruck they usually are in the presence of greatness (defined as English club in Champions League). One pundit (missed who) started talking about teams like Bolton having to accept de facto feeder club status to survive if this was to all go through.

    Four loan players from one EPL club -> 'special relationship'; then when it becomes 5 or 6 players, maybe some sort of exclusivity becomes part of the deal. "And as we're generously paying big chunk of their wages, maybe we should decide when and whether they play."

    *I would however point out to Clinton Morrison(I think?) who said "No-one wants the League Cup" that he might recall how important a bit of a run in the League cup is to lower league clubs like Colchester and Exeter where he wound up.

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  • ale
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul S View Post
    How many fans will actually watch this? Seeing the same teams playing each other week in week out is very boring and I can't see how this will generate the millions they think it will.
    This has always puzzled me about European League break aways. Selecting 20 clubs from richest Leagues still means only 3 or 4 are going to be chasing the main title. So 15 or so clubs going to be going half a season or more with nothing to play for-on reasonable assumption relegation wont be built in. And there will be no historical rivalries or local derbies to raise enthusiasm. Still less opportunities to travel away en masse. Could be wrong but how attractive for say 14th place is Man Utd v Lyon going to be (insert own teams)

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogin the Armchair fan
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul S View Post
    How many fans will actually watch this? Seeing the same teams playing each other week in week out is very boring and I can't see how this will generate the millions they think it will.
    This has been drawn up by the two clubs with American owners. Where the whole concept of the NBA and MLB is that once you get past that tedious "league season" bit, fans actually want to watch the same two teams play each other 5, 6 or even 7 times on the trot in end of season playoffs.

    Leave a comment:


  • ale
    replied
    Originally posted by Capybara View Post
    Aston Villa? Newcastle (even though they've been out of it three times)?
    Missed the first season & had a couple of one season stays in Division 2. In terms of Premier seasons the top 9 are

    29-Arsenal Chelsea Everton Liverpool Man Utd Spurs
    26-Villa & NUFC
    25-West Ham

    I guess the omission of Man City rules out that being the basis of selection. There is method in their madness. Even if it is madness.

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  • ale
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
    Who are the other three of the nine? Everton and who?
    Southampton & West Ham. Based on unbroken tenure in Premier since 2012/13 being the only assumption.

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  • Paul S
    replied
    How many fans will actually watch this? Seeing the same teams playing each other week in week out is very boring and I can't see how this will generate the millions they think it will.

    Leave a comment:


  • Walt Flanagans Dog
    replied
    Originally posted by sw2borshch View Post
    I guess the summer tournament is a curtain raiser to replace the charity shield? Probably offering a slightly larger amount to charity to blunt criticism?
    If they are defining "good causes" as "including the FA" then I don't think raising money for actual charities is in their plans. Sounds more like they are pissed off at the promoters of the "International Champions Series" or whatever it is called now getting a slice of the action, and would expect the Summer tournament to extend invitations to the clubs that they are also intent on playing more frequently in the Champions League.

    (that last sentence got away from me a bit but I knew what I meant).

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  • Sean of the Shed
    replied
    ​​​​​​My Name Is Ian has wasted no time at all. Excellent article on 200%.

    Leave a comment:


  • Toby Gymshorts
    replied
    Every single part of this can get all the way to fuck.

    There is a darkly amusing aspect to our fucking government throwing shade on a naked power grab at a time of crisis, mind. Presumably they're a bit pissed off at someone appropriating their methods.

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  • sw2borshch
    replied
    I guess the summer tournament is a curtain raiser to replace the charity shield? Probably offering a slightly larger amount to charity to blunt criticism?

    Leave a comment:


  • Walt Flanagans Dog
    replied
    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
    Can they dictate to the EFL how many clubs they have? Why is it not acceptable to have 25 clubs in the 3rd and 4th tiers, for example?
    Nor should they dictate to the EFL what knockout tournaments its clubs play in _ if they don't want to take part that's their lookout.

    There is obviously lots to hate about this but the "Summer Premier League" (as mentioned already) and more time for pre season friendlies are both depressing choices of priorities.

    Leave a comment:


  • cantagalo
    replied
    Rick Parry - a strategic plant at the EFL?

    When he turned up, I remember wondering 'What the fuck is he doing there'?

    I confess I also thought that at least he couldn't be worse than Shaun Harvey.

    Leave a comment:


  • ursus arctos
    replied
    https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1315323276135202816

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