Originally posted by EIM
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No More Harry - Premier League 2020/21
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They've lost their edge in attack for reasons that are not clear
So they don't have the solidity and confidence or the passing ability that VVD gives or the pace and distribution of he and Gomez. Which means Robbo and TAA aren't able to drive on from the halfway line, so everything starts a little slower and deeper. So they play a lot more trying to walk the ball in, which teams have got wise to and flood the midfield and defence.
The last 3 games I've watched and I've thought about 200 times "just have a dig from there" because they're not putting the keepers under pressure. It's too slow and too static.
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The reason Liverpool aren't getting anything like the ridiculous number of decisions in the box that Man Utd are getting is because they're not moving fast enough either.
Man Utd run at defenders. Then when they fall over, refs are far more likely to give it because it looks more convincing. Mane should have had a pen against Newcastle when the keeper grabbed his leg and held it and he should have had one tonight when he was pulled over from behind.
But neither looked like what "fouls" look like from ref view because he was barely moving and it's easier to not give them when they go over slowly. VAR is no use because if it looks convincing enough in real time there's always an angle that can be used to back up the ref so it's not a "clear mistake."
Liverpool need to do more running at defenders. That's how you get decisions.
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Originally posted by pebblethefish View Post
How does everyone else seem to have understood what this post is about? What is RAWK VARAnon? Are you an angry parrot?
VARAnon is, I assume, TAB's own construction of people who think VAR is a conspiracy theory
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Originally posted by hobbes View PostThe reason Liverpool aren't getting anything like the ridiculous number of decisions in the box that Man Utd are getting is because they're not moving fast enough either.
Man Utd run at defenders. Then when they fall over, refs are far more likely to give it because it looks more convincing. Mane should have had a pen against Newcastle when the keeper grabbed his leg and held it and he should have had one tonight when he was pulled over from behind.
But neither looked like what "fouls" look like from ref view because he was barely moving and it's easier to not give them when they go over slowly. VAR is no use because if it looks convincing enough in real time there's always an angle that can be used to back up the ref so it's not a "clear mistake."
Liverpool need to do more running at defenders. That's how you get decisions.
The other thing is that it helps to have more than one of these incidents in a game. Regardless what some over-excitable LFC fans might say, man utd don't immediately get every vague penalty that they appeal for. There was a really good shout for a handball by coady, in the lead up to the cavani goal that was ruled out for offside against Wolves. It was one of those situations where if the ref had given it, you'd understand why, but also you could see why he might not give it. It's best not to get too excited about it. And if there's a pro man utd refereeing conspiracy, I'm afraid it extends all the way to Uefa, coz united got four penalties in their six CL games.
That mane incident against newcastle reminds me of shay given getting up in front of Ruud van Nistelrooy and bringing him down as he chased an inexplicable stooping-headed backpass from steve Staunton, as Ireland heroically beat the netherlands 1-0 in 2001. both were definitely penalties, but both get lost in the fog of Goal keeper protection. I thought that was a penalty tonight, but I think the ref decided that the player had barged him from the side in an effort to win the ball. I thought it was pretty puzzling, but the thing as you point out is that it happens so slowly. I mean he awarded a goal kick. I can see why VAR wouldn't overrule the ref, but I would have asked him to have another look. It wasn't quite a "You've got that one wrong mate," it was more an "Are you entirely sure?"
Originally posted by hobbes View Post
It's very clear. Without VVD and Gomez at the back, they've lost both of the people who start and recycle attacks. They've Also lost their best holding midfield player to cover at the back, meaning Henderson has to play deeper, losing his drive behind the front three.
So they don't have the solidity and confidence or the passing ability that VVD gives or the pace and distribution of he and Gomez. Which means Robbo and TAA aren't able to drive on from the halfway line, so everything starts a little slower and deeper. So they play a lot more trying to walk the ball in, which teams have got wise to and flood the midfield and defence.
The last 3 games I've watched and I've thought about 200 times "just have a dig from there" because they're not putting the keepers under pressure. It's too slow and too static.
The thing about that is that it's a good way to consistently win narrow games, and turn draws into wins more often than not. Liverpool won 14 league games by a single goal last season, (Drawing 3 and losing one by a single goal) the impressive thing about liverpool is that the impact of the huge number of injuries isn't affecting them more, but the area where it appears. Liverpool scored at least 2 goals in 28 out of 38 games last season, and managed it in 14 of their first 16 games. After a lively start, they've failed to score at least twice in 6 of their last 10 league games.
Actually the clockwork nature of the team also feeds into liverpool not getting that many penalties. You can see very clearly if you look at say the Crystal palace game that when liverpool get into the box, it's about passing the ball to the guy who isn't marked by anyone. It's difficult to look at the seven goals they scored against palace, and to see where the opportunity to give away a penalty would arise unless someone got a real rush of blood to the head.Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 05-01-2021, 12:24.
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Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
RAWK is a Liverpool forum that is usually touted as the home of the frothing lunatic fringe of that club;s support (Red and white kop? maybe)
VARAnon is, I assume, TAB's own construction of people who think VAR is a conspiracy theory
That Klopp has jumped straight to the man utd would have got those penalties thing is not a good sign. His whole schtick is largely based around being above that sort of thing, because it's a distraction from his broader aims. This is the smart move and always pays off in the medium to long term, but you can see how frustrated he's becoming on the touchline. You weren't getting half as much rowing with the fourth official last season, when things were going super smoothly. Then again you weren't getting half as many shots of him standing on the line with his mouth open and a look on his face that suggested that his brain had jumped out of his head in disbelief. He needs to find a less visually arresting way of being dismayed.
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Everyone knew that the world's biggest club and the world's richest club would both bob back up to the top again, like corpses from the bottom of a pond. It's just frustrating that Liverpool have let their brief dominance slip through their own fingers, rather than just being overwhelmed by the other two being on course for 90-plus point seasons again. Yes the injuries have buggered up the 'clockwork', but no team should enjoy 75% of possession and only create one decent scoring chance. In three matches running. That's a much more fundamental problem when all your main attacking players are still on the pitch.
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I would have thought that a big part of their problem is that over the last 10 games man utd have been on course for a 99 point season. How long they can keep that up is open for question, but they've made up a lot of ground in a relatively short space of time. As for liverpool last night, they looked exhausted. More mentally than physically. Passing teams all kind of look the same when they're in trouble. The players get too far apart, they start to look for the killer pass to force the goal. So instead of taking seven passes to set up a chance where each has a high probability of success, they try to do it in four with a riskier pass. Then there's the flip side of that where they take far too many passes and the thrust of the attack is lost. Getting it spot on requires enormous expenditure of mental effort game after game. That sometimes comes off, but more usually it doesn't. This is a separate issue from the injury problems, which make it a bit worse.
To be fair it's kind of inevitable for a team that is basically in its fourth year together. They've been doing this for quite a while now, and while Liverpool will likely have another strong season out of this group of players,next season. but then a lot of hard decisions will have to be made in a relatively short period of time. A lot of these players will be 30 at the end of next season. This isn't a mistake, it's the inevitable consequence of what seems to be the optimal team building strategy, but it is tricky to deal with.
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Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View PostLiverpool have had a run of three games without a win and it's been spoken about like it's full on crisis and the end of an era. It's like fucking Talksport on here sometimes.
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