No More Harry - Premier League 2020/21

[Patrick Thistle]

TAB got it half right talking about squad rotation and how that gets criticised by the media. A solution would be to ban all media commentators unless they have passed stringent tests to determine their fitness to practice including understanding the laws of the game and basic tactics.

He then seems to argue that managers who don't rotate (like Jurgen and Pep) should be encouraged to carry on not rotating and be given extra subs.

[Satchmo Distel]

Why is the 5 subs system being resisted by most EPL clubs if it benefits all of them? Do these clubs not know their best interests?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

England is a country drowning in a culture of national exceptionalism, reactionary conservatism and low information/low cognition decision making.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

He then seems to argue that managers who don't rotate (like Jurgen and Pep) should be encouraged to carry on not rotating and be given extra subs.

No, No I don't. I'm merely pointing out that the idea that big clubs have loads of superstars ready to be thrown onto the pitch to win games, isn't remotely a reflection of how modern football has changed, and runs counter to the tendencies of managers at the top end of the game. The point there is that the premise for not allowing 5 subs is just nonsense. Managers like this would have been poorly set up to deal with this upcoming season as it stands even if they had five subs, but would trent alexander arnold have basically collapsed, if klopp had been able to give neco williams 15 minutes at the end of games, so he was in a better position to drop him into the team from time to time and rest TAA, and now that TAA is broken, Neco williams is going to be liverpool's rightback for the foreseeable future, having accrued almost no first team experience. It's really hard to rotate if hiayou're going from having a really good, experienced first team player, to essentially picking a child who has barely played a first team game, and is likely quite a distance from match sharpness, and covered in rust. This isn't just true for big clubs, it's true for every club in the league.

Introducing five subs now isn't going to do much for Liverpool or man city, their players are already broken. Liverpool are going to be playing leicester without their entire back four, both their main defensive midfielders, and thiago and Salah. some of those players will be back fairly soon, but a lot of them are out for the long term, and a solid foundation like that is the basis for an ongoing injury crisis

Essentially it boils down to this. If you have a problem with how money is distributed in the premier league, then raise that issue when the time comes up. This is a health and safety issue, not an opportunity for 'class warfare'. This comes across as an effort to level the playing field with a wave of mutilation. it's not a good look. Everyone else in the world thinks it's nuts. But it has been a long time since people expected better.

[Patrick Thistle]

Well first off, Neco Williams is match fit enough to play for Wales and didn't look covered in rust there. Secondly, it's not not having more subs that is stopping Klopp et al from killing their players. It's the lack of squad rotation. 15 minutes every so often doesn't develop players (exhibit a Phil Foden). Playing full games develops players. Klopp and Pep have plenty of games to roll out the young uns. That they don't shows a profound luck of trust in their squads.

The ubermanagers seem to get what they want with no pushback. They get their U23s in the football league trophy in the name of player development. They want b teams in League One in the name of player development and we have to listen to them as if it's an intelligent suggestion. They got a winter break to rest players. Nobody ever tells them they need to change. Heaven forfend any of these demigod managers ever has to take responsibility for their own fucking tactics or their own fucking approach. It's always the game that has to change because they are never fucking wrong.

[caja-dglh]

15 minutes every so often doesn't develop players (exhibit a Phil Foden).

Is Phil Foden written off as unfulfilled potential now? Just trying to keep up.

[Patrick Thistle]

Well how would we know? He never fucking plays.

[Ek weet nie]

He played 38 times last year averaging 46 minutes per appearance.

This season he has played more than Gundogan, Fernandinho and Bernando Silva. De Bruyne has been on the pitch for and hour more than he has.

[Jah Womble]

Most will have seen Foden play dozens of times over the past couple of seasons.

He has serious potential to become a top player - assuming he can sort out his off-field priorities.

[delicatemoth]

Liverpool are going to be playing leicester without their entire back four, both their main defensive midfielders, and thiago and Salah.

Have you seen Leicester's injury list? Ricardo's been out all season, Soyuncu and Ndidi for most of it, Maddison is still coming back from injury, Castagne got injured. These are all key players. Rodgers has been getting on with it and adapting the team's approach and formation game by game to deal with this situation, with such unexpected outcomes as Fuchs getting his longest run for three years and Mendy finally getting a run to demonstrate he is a fine player. If Liverpool and Manchester City, with superior resources, can't manage that then it's on them.

[pebblethefish]

If I've read things right, Leicester will be going into that match by cheating, because they haven't let Liverpool use 5 subs, that they wouldn't have used anyway, because they don't believe in crop rotation.

Or something. It was a very long post.

[delicatemoth]

I forgot to mention that the young right-sided fullback/wingback James Justin has been playing the entire season on the left, and opponents have been targeting that side as a result (shockingly unsporting, I know).

I mean, TAB isn't wrong about the modern football as nine-dimensional chess bit, but adapting to circumstances is a big part of management, I'd have thought.

[Snake Plissken]

The fundamental problem appears to be that a game of football is scheduled to last for 90 minutes and it’s frankly shocking that players have been forced to play for that length of time for the last *checks notes* century and a bit.

[Snake Plissken]

After all, with billiard smooth surfaces and the latest sports science it is ridiculous to expect professional athletes to last as long as their predecessors whose training regime consisted of alcohol, cigarettes and lard. I mean, look at a match from say, Christmas 1914, and you would think it was like the Somme out there.

[Toby Gymshorts]

I mean, I've taken to disagreeing with Guardiola as an ideological viewpoint, because he's a weird, paranoid arse.

I also disagree with Klopp on this one, however, which is causing me astronomical levels of cognitive dissonance.

Anyway. Lump on Leicester to get at least four.

[Patrick Thistle]

Interestingly the EFL has voted to retain 5 subs for the season. Although as one wag on the Salop Facebook page asked, we don't know how Sam Rickets will manage the logistics of bringing them all on in the last 5 minutes of the game once Town are down 3-0.

[Satchmo Distel]

I think there are regulations that prevent subs being used in that way.

I have gradually changed my mind on the issue and do now feel that in a compressed schedule, five subs are justifiable. For example, we face a Euros with many key players missing.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Well first off, Neco Williams is match fit enough to play for Wales and didn't look covered in rust there. Secondly, it's not not having more subs that is stopping Klopp et al from killing their players. It's the lack of squad rotation. 15 minutes every so often doesn't develop players (exhibit a Phil Foden). Playing full games develops players. Klopp and Pep have plenty of games to roll out the young uns. That they don't shows a profound luck of trust in their squads.

Hmm, having recently watched that wales Ireland game, I think it's fair to say that there is a bit of a gap between league football and international football. in every conceivable dimension. It's a lot closer to the vibe of a third round league cup tie against a lower league team than playing for a team that is chasing the title. that's not a dig at Wales that's true of the overwhelming majority of national teams. on the second point, the lack of subs is partly what stymies squad rotation, because it means that in order to rotate players, you have to call on players that haven't played any first team football at all for a spell. If you've seen a player out there on a pitch doing fairly well in a bunch of cameos, then you're more likely to pick him for a full game than someone who you haven't seen out there. It's also not just a personal preference thing on the part of these coaches. Both teams have extremely prescriptive systems of play and game plans, and have fairly intensive coaching. which they then establish by going out and doing it in matches over and over again. It leaves you with a perfectly balanced machine, with cogs refined to the exact specifications. It's very difficult for coaches that operate like this to start jamming in new cogs that aren't quite as perfectly honed, and beyond a certain point you're just going to break the machine.

The only purpose in mentioning that game is to point out that this idea that this is just big clubs wanting to flood the pitch with superstar subs, is simply not an accurate reflection of how football actually works in 2020. It is a really bad reason for opposing a measure that has been adopted by the rest of the world.

The ubermanagers seem to get what they want with no pushback. They get their U23s in the football league trophy in the name of player development. They want b teams in League One in the name of player development and we have to listen to them as if it's an intelligent suggestion. They got a winter break to rest players. Nobody ever tells them they need to change. Heaven forfend any of these demigod managers ever has to take responsibility for their own fucking tactics or their own fucking approach. It's always the game that has to change because they are never fucking wrong.

See this is where it goes off the rails. This isn't some bizarre wheeze conjured up by managers of big clubs, this is literally what every other league in the world outside of England and wales is doing right now. Because this is a player welfare issue. Players everywhere are having to play loads of games in a very short time, having had insufficient time to prepare. It's really weird that people in E+W don't s[ee it this way. It is national exceptionalism gone mad. You can make the unflattering analogies with other examples of english national exceptionalism yourself. They're not flattering. but it is worth thinking about.

Have you seen Leicester's injury list? Ricardo's been out all season, Soyuncu and Ndidi for most of it, Maddison is still coming back from injury, Castagne got injured. These are all key players. Rodgers has been getting on with it and adapting the team's approach and formation game by game to deal with this situation, with such unexpected outcomes as Fuchs getting his longest run for three years and Mendy finally getting a run to demonstrate he is a fine player. If Liverpool and Manchester City, with superior resources, can't manage that then it's on them.

But Leicester are in the exact same two games a week, players heading off for international duty situation as Liverpool. Albeit the group stages of the Europa league give much greater opportunity to rotate and rest players than the champions league, There are two big differences though. The first is that leicester were dealing with something quite similar last season, whereas liverpool had freakishly few injuries, so this is a real shock. But also Brendan rodgers doesn't send out the players with the same amount of instructions as liverpool or man city, so they're a bit less reliant on a core of players who know the complicated plan. It only reinforces my point however. There are loads of clubs now with injury lists as long as anyone can really remember. It's no real guide to who will show up for liverpool against leicester, but at the moment, they're missing their entire first choice back four, two of their first choice midfield, maybe three if you think thiago was supposed to replace wijnaldum, and one of their three forwards. But they're also missing oxlade chamberlain and one or two others.

I think we've long passed the point where it is clear that the massively truncated preseason, combined with the ridiculous playing calendar is leading to a massive increase in injuries. This was abundantly obvious before the season started, and was going to affect everyone even if you had five substitutes. Going back to three substitutes because everything was fine was always going to end in predictable disaster. Lets see how the clubs who voted against this feel when their players start dropping like flies around christmas. I suspect people will have a different opinion then.

[Satchmo Distel]

Neco's not been the same since the Velvet Underground period.

[MarkF]

Been a long time since I got excited when a player picks the ball up but Tariq Lamptey just gets better all the time. His speed is just scary.

Hopefully, working with Welbeck and Lallana will help him develop a bit more composure in his distribution.

And he's a Seagull! Crikey.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

[MarkF]

And now to enjoy the bitter tears of Dean Smith and that cheating cunt of a showpony, Grealish,. Good stuff.

[Jah Womble]

That’d have been given as a free-kick anywhere else on the pitch. (To coin an oft-used phrase, like.)

Lamptey shouldn’t have seen a second yellow for that challenge, either. Oliver did not have his best afternoon.

[1974ddr]

And now to enjoy the bitter tears of Dean Smith and that cheating cunt of a showpony, Grealish,. Good stuff.

What a strange attitude. Being kicked all over the park week in week out makes you a 'cheating cunt of a showpony'? Well I never.
Maybe supporting Brighton doesn't give you much to celebrate?
As for today's game, I thought Villa were quite poor, Brighton had a plan and made the most of it. Lamprey was possibly unfortunate to be sent off, and VAR denied Villa a penalty- no surprise there- which might have given us a draw. Personally I think a draw would probably have been a fair result on balance.

[Snake Plissken]

I think that I said after watching Villa deservedly beat Burnley at Turf Moor on New Years Day that while Grealish is a brilliantly talented and exceptional player, I could completely understand - but obviously not condone - that Birmingham fan going onto the pitch and punching him.