Football on the radio in England

[danielmak]

As I understand it, BBC and ITV mostly showed highlights of league games back in the day. Were complete games aired on the radio at that time? And if so, were those games aired only on local radio (i.e., Leeds United had their own radio team and those games could only be heard in or around Leeds)? Or were there national broadcasts?

And while I'm tossing out a string of questions, was the FA Cup handled in the same way (limited full match coverage on TV so full games could only be seen live or heard on the radio)?

[tee rex]

I'm not sure when it ended, but the formula I first knew (from late 60s/early 70s) was that BBC Radio could only do second half commentary, for the nationwide audience. What's more, they weren't even allowed to tell you which game, until it kicked off. Basically league club chairmen had grown up with silent movies, so their views on mass media were pretty antiquated. They feared thousands of potential matchgoers would stay home if they knew that Liverpool were on the radio after half-time. This rule of secrecy applied to all league and cup games, with few exceptions (FA Cup final, whole game broadcast live).

I can recall the thrill (no, not ironic) of listening to Sport on 2 and waiting for the 3 pm announcement, to see if your prediction was correct, whereupon you had won or lost a bet with your brother and got beaten up either way.

[My Name Is Ian]

They might not even have changed that formula until the start of the Premier League. It was certainly the same by the middle of the 1980s.

The only thing I'd add is that until 2011 the BBC used two commentators for matches on the radio, swapping halfway through each half. They only did this because they'd always done it that way.

The secrecy absurd over matches was absurd. For televised matches, the BBC was prevented from mentioning who they were showing on Match Of The Day until 2.45pm on the Saturday concerned. They were absolutely paranoid that it would destroy attendances, even though there wasn't really any evidence that they negatively impacted upon attendances.

[tee rex]

For televised matches, the BBC was prevented from mentioning who they were showing on Match Of The Day until 2.45pm on the Saturday concerned.

Yes, not allowed to mention but giving it away on Football Focus, a couple of hours beforehand. "Here's Barry Davies at Villa Park, interviewing injured star who's missing today's game". Thanks for the heads-up, Barry.

[longeared]

Local radio was equally restricted in what it could do, which lasted up to about the early 1990s. They were limited to something like a 30 second summary every 15 minutes and a shorter look in if a goal was scored. Round here it was pretty much "right, quarter past three, time to go round the grounds". There was an occasion once where United had a big cup tie (possibly Norwich 1989) and Radio Sheffield were allowed to do a full second half commentary, which was so unusual it was treated like the Coronation.

[Ray de Galles]

Was it really as long ago as 2011 that the BBC dropped having two commentators for their main game? It seems like a much more recent cost-cutting measure.

[fatbear]

there was often a clue when there was only one cup replay on that night and there was radio coverage of match being broadcast that evening !

[My Name Is Ian]

Was it really as long ago as 2011 that the BBC dropped having two commentators for their main game? It seems like a much more recent cost-cutting measure.

I had to look it up and they announced it in October 2011, so they might not have actually put it through until a bit later. (I'm never listen to football on the radio nowadays, so I'm out of the loop on it myself.)

[Capybara]

Can anyone pinpoint when it actually was when radio commentators switched from telling us what was going on to offering tired opinion?

[Satchmo Distel]

Was it when Peter Jones died (1990)?

Mike Ingham's memoirs are scathing about the BBC dropping the two commentators tradition.

[Capybara]

Possibly. And, talking of Peter Jones, and the point made earlier about sharing commentary, who did he use to share with? I know that going back it was Bryon Butler but I think he retired. Alan Parry?

[diggedy derek]

It seems kind of extraordinary to think that the BBC used to use two commentators for the same game. Sure, it's nice to do it, if you have the resources, but... it seems an extraordinary luxury.

[Sporting]

Possibly. And, talking of Peter Jones, and the point made earlier about sharing commentary, who did he use to share with? I know that going back it was Bryon Butler but I think he retired. Alan Parry?

Maurice Edelston?

[Diable Rouge]

It seems kind of extraordinary to think that the BBC used to use two commentators for the same game. Sure, it's nice to do it, if you have the resources, but... it seems an extraordinary luxury.

Largely to give listeners a break from Alan Green in the latter years.

[Various Artist]

I had to look it up and they announced it in October 2011, so they might not have actually put it through until a bit later. (I'm never listen to football on the radio nowadays, so I'm out of the loop on it myself.)

It shows how completely I've stopped listening to football on the radio that this thread-within-the-thread came as a complete surprise to me. I honestly hadn't twigged they'd stopped switching commentators midway through each half. And until now, it'd never occurred to me that this might ever have seemed an odd thing to do... because, of course, it was simply the way the BBC had always done it.

[Satchmo Distel]

Possibly. And, talking of Peter Jones, and the point made earlier about sharing commentary, who did he use to share with? I know that going back it was Bryon Butler but I think he retired. Alan Parry?

It was Alan Parry until the early 80s, when Parry went to MOTD* and ITV. After that, Mike Ingham I think.

*He also did WC 1982 on TV not radio; e.g he did Algeria v West Germany

[Snake Plissken]

Green let it be known that he would always commentate on the second half of each half except when sharing with Mike Ingram.

Which made realise that there was clearly some kind of 80s Radio 1 type hierarchy and ego based in-fighting in the various commentary boxes.

[Sporting]

Maurice Edelston?

Nobody old enough?

[ursus arctos]

Seems to have been Butler from the start, though Edelston gave him his big break

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/voi...kip=1597505147

His career actually started due to a chance meeting with Maurice Edelston, the former football star who later worked as a radio broadcaster.

Jones commentated on group matches at the 1966 World Cup in England, and soon became popular with fans. By the time of the 1970 World Cup, he was the main BBC radio commentator alongside Bryon Butler, and worked on the legendary final in Mexico between Brazil and Italy.

[My Name Is Ian]

Maurice Edelston died quite young, from a heart attack at 57 in 1976. There's a complete radio recording of the BBCs 1979 FA Cup final commentary on YouTube, and it's Bryon Butler and Peter Jones.

https://youtu.be/8N8L85LeCww

[Ray de Galles]

I had to look it up and they announced it in October 2011, so they might not have actually put it through until a bit later. (I'm never listen to football on the radio nowadays, so I'm out of the loop on it myself.)

It appears from the news reports I've found of the 2011 announcement that dual commentators were phased out by 2014.

That still seems longer ago than I recall but that probably says more about my relative disengagement from R5 (and the effect of age on memory) than anything else.

[tee rex]

There was a brief period of overlap between class and crass: here's Peter Jones and Alan Green commentating on one of the classics, Liverpool 3 Man Utd 3, 1988 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBt3sXB_qOY

[tee rex]

That recording serves as another memory correction: the co-commentators provide score updates from other games, but without going to the reporters at the grounds. I don't know when crossing to those reporters became the norm, because in my mind's ear it always was.

[ursus arctos]

For a bit of international perspective, the Italian programme Tutto il Calcio Minuto per Minuto, which provides "multiplex" coverage of each of the Serie A matches live, began in 1960, though to be fair it took ten seasons for Serie A to allow them to broadcast full matches (they originally began with the second half kickoffs). It was an absolute institution in the country, particularly during the Golden Age of the 80s and 90s.

The Italians got the idea from the French, who were using it for rugby in the late 50s.

[Sporting]

For a bit of international perspective, the Italian programme Tutto il Calcio Minuto per Minuto, which provides "multiplex" coverage of each of the Serie A matches live, began in 1960, though to be fair it took ten seasons for Serie A to allow them to broadcast full matches (they originally began with the second half kickoffs). It was an absolute institution in the country, particularly during the Golden Age of the 80s and 90s.

Spanish radio stations used the same multi-coverage system. This died when the Spanish league started staggering matches all through the weekend and when all games became available on live TV.