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    How much noise are 2,000 fans going to make in a large stadium, sufficient to give the home side an extra advantage?

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      It's not the coronavirus that decides which places are in which tiers or which restrictions apply to which areas though. It seems bizarre to deny that there is a political element involved in all these decisions.

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        If the election were only a few months away, the decision would be different, I think. They'd keep everything open except in very solid Labour areas and take a risk on the NHS coping.

        Darlington fans seem to think they are unlucky that County Durham gets the same treatment as the rest of the north east.
        Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 27-11-2020, 11:28.

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          Originally posted by Janik View Post
          The BBC report on this includes a comment from Salford boss Richie Wellens which seems the most realistic to me. Basically yes it’s unfair in normal circumstances, but these are not normal circumstances (though obviously the financial effect of crowds is important - but for example we're pretty sure that 2,000 in for us would be a net negative financially).




          Yeah the guardian had Mark Palios of Tranmere saying similar.

          Personally I'm hugely sceptical about the effect of a crowd on performances.
          Last edited by TonTon; 27-11-2020, 11:51.

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            Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
            Darlington fans seem to think they are unlucky that County Durham gets the same treatment as the rest of the north east.
            Darlington is a unitary authority so separate from County Durham for this purpose (it's more likely to follow Teesside due to the commuting patterns), and it has the 4th highest rate of infection in the North East out of 12 local authorities so they don't really have a leg to stand on. The North East is by far the most homogeneous region in the country in terms of infection rates, every area except Hartlepool is between 200 and 300 per 100k.

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              Originally posted by TonTon View Post
              Personally I'm hugely sceptical about the effect of a crowd on performances.
              I don't suppose we're unique in this, but the Carlisle ifollow commentary team have been musing on whether the lack of fans has actually meant some of our players have played better, since there hasn't been a wave of moaning and griping coming out of the Paddock every time they miscontrol the ball or play a pass that isn't forwards.

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                Originally posted by TonTon View Post


                Personally I'm hugely sceptical about the effect of a crowd on performances.
                When football first restarted there was a definite drop in %age of home wins, not sure if any research has been done since.

                I think the lack of a crowd certainly neutralises home advantage to an extent.

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                  Northern League statement:

                  FURTHER SUSPENSION OF FIXTURES

                  The League Management Committee (LMC) has sent the following message to clubs:

                  The current lockdown ends at midnight on the 2nd December 2020 and will be replaced by a three tier system based on total number of Covid cases in an area; the number of cases in over 60s; rate at which cases are rising or falling; the proportion of test results coming back positive and pressure on the NHS.

                  Decisions made by the Government will unfortunately see 37 of the league’s 40 clubs placed in areas covered by Tier Three restrictions which would allow football to be played at Steps 5/6 but would require them to be played behind closed doors thereby removing significant income streams for all our clubs.

                  Although the FA has stressed that their key objective is to conclude the 2002/21 season and implement promotion and relegation, either through completion of the fixtures schedule or by a mathematical formula if the season is incomplete, it is the feeling of the LMC that at this stage it’s simply not financially viable to ask clubs to play without spectators being present.

                  Consequently, at an emergency LMC meeting held earlier this morning, it was decided that the league would be suspended for a further two weeks until 16th December 2020 when the Government will be undertaking the first of its fortnightly reviews of the tier areas.

                  We will also review the situation at this point.

                  In the meantime the league will be carrying out a consultation exercise with its member clubs over the next week as to how we can fulfil the FA’s objectives and still comply with the Government restrictions without putting our clubs’ existence at risk.

                  Any decision regarding league fixtures does not include the FA Vase or the County Cup competitions which do not fall under our jurisdiction.

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                    The Vase and Trophy are fucked, surely? They've already put back the Vase by a week to Dec 5th and will now have to reschedule for the 19th or later if none of the Tier 3 clubs want to play.

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                      I'm fronting on nowt here but maybe clubs in Tier 3 may be more amenable to playing a one-off Cup tie behind closed doors with the hope of progressing to the next round by when they may be able to let fans in?

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                        Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                        The Vase and Trophy are fucked, surely? They've already put back the Vase by a week to Dec 5th and will now have to reschedule for the 19th or later if none of the Tier 3 clubs want to play.
                        Last season's finals haven't been played yet.

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                          A few days after it got out that five players had tested positive (no idea who), NUFC have closed the training ground. According to the link they've responded to the outbreak by "instituting mass testing" which is.. definitely something I would have presumed a Premier League club would have been doing all along.

                          Still, less time on the training pitch with Steve Bruce will probably be good for them.

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                            And Villa on Friday is now postponed. How exciting!

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                              Amazingly few Football League postponements considering the disparity in resources.

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                                What do you know of NUFC that would make you think they're run as anything other than a money-grubbing bare minimum effort with minimal concern for the health and wellbeing of its employees? This is a club that notified Jonas Gutierrez of his sacking by phoning up Ryan Taylor and telling him that he was getting fucked off, and then asking if he'd pass the phone to Jonas.

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                                  In the Romanian second division the rule is that if a game gets postponed through covid a second time, it is awarded as a 3-0 win against the team who called it off the first time.

                                  So, team A has positive tests and asks for a fixture postponement. Then when the rearranged game is due to be played, team B claims that they have positive tests necessitating a second postponement - which means they are awarded the win. I imagine this idea worked in someone's head

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                                    I thought there was a grassroots thread, but I can't seem to find it. So this one seems the best fit for this.

                                    I've heard today through my Hockey club that the government has informed sports bodies that in tier 2 areas only people from one household or general support bubble can share a vehicle to get to grassroots sport fixtures. I haven't heard that this applies to Football as well as Hockey... but I can't see how this could be sport-specific advice. If that is indeed what has happened (and it only broke today) then all local Football at step 3/4/5 looks f*cked. No team coach to get to away games, not even car sharing. There is no way the clubs at that level can pay the petrol costs of every single player driving themselves to away games which are sometimes 50-100 miles away, and also no way the players will be willing to shoulder those costs themselves. It probably needs to get down to county league level or below before distances are short enough for players driving themselves to all games to be tenable.

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                                      Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                      The Vase and Trophy are fucked, surely? They've already put back the Vase by a week to Dec 5th and will now have to reschedule for the 19th or later if none of the Tier 3 clubs want to play.
                                      Originally posted by Third rate Leszno View Post
                                      I'm fronting on nowt here but maybe clubs in Tier 3 may be more amenable to playing a one-off Cup tie behind closed doors with the hope of progressing to the next round by when they may be able to let fans in?
                                      Northern League clubs seem to be going ahead with this weekend's Vase fixtures, but they've almost all been drawn at home or against other NL clubs so at least don't have to travel far. However Ashington who faced a trip to Chorley (a 300+ mile round trip) have pulled out:

                                      Our first priority under the current circumstances lie with the health and wellbeing of our playing staff, officials and volunteers. A six hour return journey from one very high risk area to another during the current situation is not one which the football club is comfortable with - potentially placing the players, staff and their families at risk.

                                      Like everyone else, we are desperate to get back playing with fans able to attend and watch and the only way this will be possible is for us all to play our part in reducing the infection rate within our area allowing us to move out of Tier 3. In order to help this happen we as a club will adhere to the government guidance that travel out of a Tier 3 area for sport should not take place.

                                      We are aware that step 3-6 within the National League System has been identified as work, however playing football is not the primary income for the vast majority of our squad. We need to minimise the risk in our players and staff being unable to attend their primary employment due to illness or isolation.

                                      Secondly - without fans permitted in the ground or external support to play the fixture it is not financially viable to travel, pay wages and associated expenses in what is an uncertain time for non league clubs such as ours. There is also no certainty that the competition will be completed due to the pandemic given that last years final is still to be played.

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                                        NL clubs do well in the Vase so there is an incentive to keep going but, as you say, once a team has to travel beyond the North East the economics are not viable until crowds return.

                                        In the Trophy, I can't see why anyone below National League North and South would want to play.

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                                          Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                          In the Trophy, I can't see why anyone below National League North and South would want to play.
                                          In general, I agree with that - but Marine are due to play Hyde Utd at home next week so even without food and drink sales a crowd of 400 and some extra match fitness for the players is probably a reasonable incentive.

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                                            Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                            NL clubs do well in the Vase so there is an incentive to keep going but, as you say, once a team has to travel beyond the North East the economics are not viable until crowds return.

                                            Isn't the home team responsible for the away team's travel costs and expenses in the Vase? Either way it can only be down to the fact clubs may be prepared to take a gamble on a single fixture rather than agreeing to resume a league programme that gives the competition any chance of continuing as things stand.

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                                              A "substantial" number of clubs at steps 3 & 4 have voted against their leagues resuming. Tier 2 Twitter isn't happy.

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                                                The "Trident Leagues" (a term I wasn't aware of until the last few days) vote to keep their season on pause :

                                                https://twitter.com/ollie_bayliss/status/1334921623552614400?s=21

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                                                  Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
                                                  The "Trident Leagues" (a term I wasn't aware of until the last few days)
                                                  Yeah I'd not heard of that either.

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                                                    That huge majority is interesting, by my count two thirds of the clubs in Tier 2 (as well as all the clubs in Tier 3 obviously) have voted against resuming the league, so presumably they don't think it's viable for them to play even with crowds if they're not able to sell food and drinks. Which means that even if most of the Tier 3 clubs move to Tier 2 on 16 December this is unlikely to change anything, unless the government also relaxes those restrictions at Tier 2.

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