I reading a book that's set in 1939 — Zoo Station — it's set mainly in Berlin, but also London. Football matches are recurring events. At one the the protagonist asks if First Divison kick-off times "are still 3:00pm" on Saturday? Surely that's not right. Until floodlights became common, in the 50s, it was 2:00pm wasn't it
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Pre-war kick-off times
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You're right. A few clubs had floodlights in thirties but weren't allowed to use them (see below). Most of the programmes above are wartime (so non-league.) The lower Arsenal one is a FL match though. A 3:15pm kick-off just seems weird. The visibility at 5:00pm at the end of October in a British City was dire back then. I doubt you could see the opposite end of the pitch.
In the 1930s, Herbert Chapman installed lights into the new West Stand at Highbury but the Football League refused to sanction their use. This situation lasted until the 1950s, when the popularity of floodlit friendlies became such that the League relented. — Wiki.
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Some others
This site is a goldmine
Though I am struck by how common it was not to indicate the time (or even the opponent, other than on the team sheet)
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That is to have been expected, but a number of "big" clubs (Arsenal and Huddersfield, for instance) appear to have used a standard cover that was printed in advance for the entire season, with no reference to the date or opponent.
FWIW, many major league baseball clubs still use that model for their much more frequent and numerous home games (though the cover and non-scorecard content tend to change four to six times a season).
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All of which leaves us with the original question of kick off times.
You are obviously correct about the light in winter. Was it just accepted, or might deep winter kickoffs have been later (the available sample size doesn't appear to be large enough to prove this either way)? Were half-times shorter?
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Half-times, when I was a kid, were ten minutes. I also suspect referees were less prone to adding stoppage time — there were no subs of course. So you'd shave maybe 8–10 minutes off today's matches. I watched senior amateur football with no floodlights in the early 60s, but I honestly can't remember a start time other than 3:00pm.
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Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View PostHalf-times, when I was a kid, were ten minutes. I also suspect referees were less prone to adding stoppage time — there were no subs of course. So you'd shave maybe 8–10 minutes off today's matches. I watched senior amateur football with no floodlights in the early 60s, but I honestly can't remember a start time other than 3:00pm.
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As regards the games in wartime, Wiki tells us that the UK operated an extra hour ahead from 1940 until the end of the war so was on GMT+2 during the summer and GMT+1 (effectively BST) in the winter, so evenings were lighter meaning that a 3pm kick-off in November would have been completed in daylight.
The clocks usually go back on the last weekend in October, so the Sheffield United game above would still have been played in BST.
The much shorter half-time break (which continued into the 90s) meant that games rarely proceeded past 4:45.
More recently, during the three-day week in 1974, when football clubs were not allowed to use their floodlights, Saturday games did, indeed, kick off earlier, typically 2pm or 2:15. I'd be surprised if there isn't a WSC article somewhere dealing with this.
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I like the pencil notes on the Arsenal programme upthread - Goalkeeper Platt arrived 10 minutes late, with Ted Drake filling in until he turned up. But our spectator helpfully tells us he was "good" when he did show up, as were Compton (D) and Miller.
Arsenal and Spurs were sharing White Hart Lane as Highbury had been requisitioned as an ARP Stronghold (which then got bombed), which explains why both clubs' fixtures were advertised in the programme.
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Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View PostIn the 1930s, Herbert Chapman installed lights into the new West Stand at Highbury but the Football League refused to sanction their use. This situation lasted until the 1950s, when the popularity of floodlit friendlies became such that the League relented. — Wiki.
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- Oct 2011
- 26995
- Cambridgeshire
- Ipswich (convert)
- Those chocolate-coated ring-shaped ones you get at Christmas
The Football League said floodlights were "Not in the wider interests of football."
Love those hooped Ipswich socks. I've been admiring Barnsley's bitonal stockings this season whenever they appear.
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Originally posted by Capybara View PostAs regards the games in wartime, Wiki tells us that the UK operated an extra hour ahead from 1940 until the end of the war so was on GMT+2 during the summer and GMT+1 (effectively BST) in the winter, so evenings were lighter meaning that a 3pm kick-off in November would have been completed in daylight.
The much shorter half-time break (which continued into the 90s) meant that games rarely proceeded past 4:45.
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Originally posted by jwdd27 View PostArsenal and Spurs were sharing White Hart Lane as Highbury had been requisitioned as an ARP Stronghold (which then got bombed), which explains why both clubs' fixtures were advertised in the programme.
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Originally posted by Capybara View PostMore recently, during the three-day week in 1974, when football clubs were not allowed to use their floodlights, Saturday games did, indeed, kick off earlier, typically 2pm or 2:15. I'd be surprised if there isn't a WSC article somewhere dealing with this.
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Thanks GO and AH, I've learnt something today then. I'm astonished I managed to apparently forget that so entirely from my first couple of years following the game as a kid, and that it's never come up once in anything I've read or heard said about football in the last 30 years.
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January 19, 1937: FA Cup 4th round ties kicked off at 2.45 (replays 2.15), evidently because of the light
Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 15-02-2020, 20:53.
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